Let's settle the lords problem once and for all

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Isar
Posts: 9
Joined: 19 December 2020, 20:23

Let's settle the lords problem once and for all

Post by Isar »

This post is dedicated to the request for the lords card to become optional in the game lobby settings. This has been discussed quite a few times before, and for good reason.

The lords wincondition is fundamentally broken. All pro players that I have spoken to agree that once you start a game with lords, the game is already largely (we estimate around 80%) decided in high level games (>400 elo). If you are the first player you usually feel helpless right from the start because your opponent will nearly always get 12 more lords points by placing one more settlement in 3 quadrants, which is very often enough points to make the difference. The problem is worse in FFA (which is currently sadly all you can play in arena mode) because then there are even more players that will try to get 1 more settlement than the first player, sometimes resulting in the starting player only getting 6 or 12 lords points.

There is no other wincondition that specifically targets one player to be at a disadvantage. For most good players, the card is simply not fun and annoying, because there is no consistent way to play around its unfair mechanic. The creator of the game, Donald X, even stated himself that he regrets putting the card in the game, and doesn't play with it anymore personally. https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/251140 ... nd-farmers

A counterargument could be that the earlier player(s) have the general advantage of being in places first to counterweigh the disadvantage of the lords. This is true, but the general advantage of being first is not nearly as big, also because there are situations where being second is favourable because you can sneak into small spots your opponent created, or get disconnected from a landscape because your opponent placed a settlement there.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts (especially Tisaac's). If you are interested in more Kingdom Builder related discussions or chats, you can join the new Kingdom Builder Discord we just made (https://discord.gg/6DvRJ7UhCA).
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Tisaac
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Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Let's settle the lords problem once and for all

Post by Tisaac »

DonaldX answer could be close to enough to justify a game option to remove it. It would still probably need a publisher check but I have no feedback despise asking for license for expansions regularly for > 9months now. I will discuss that with admins.
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Monoleeth17
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Joined: 15 March 2014, 10:27

Re: Let's settle the lords problem once and for all

Post by Monoleeth17 »

I strongly support the idea.
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Isar
Posts: 9
Joined: 19 December 2020, 20:23

Re: Let's settle the lords problem once and for all

Post by Isar »

Tisaac wrote: 20 June 2021, 20:11 DonaldX answer could be close to enough to justify a game option to remove it. It would still probably need a publisher check but I have no feedback despise asking for license for expansions regularly for > 9months now. I will discuss that with admins.
Is the problem that Donald X needs to officially allow it? Thanks for the quick response btw :)
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CB Droege
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Re: Let's settle the lords problem once and for all

Post by CB Droege »

Yes. BGA has a policy of only allowing "official" variants and expansions of games, even simple rules changes. Otherwise the site would get bogged down with millions of proposed house-rules.
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Demosthenes88
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Joined: 13 February 2021, 21:01

Re: Let's settle the lords problem once and for all

Post by Demosthenes88 »

Let's get DonaldX support then! This would be a wonderful (and minor) change that would make high level play significantly more skill based.
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