Banlist Discussion!

[Ranior]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Siv's list.

I'm okay leaving many of the neutral/uncertain cards until we can get some games and stats in with them, but there are just a lot of cards that need to be banned before we can even get interesting data on some of the others (I won't even play this card set still until some of these things get removed, I just don't have fun playing games when someone else is doing Estate Master things for example).

I'd personally prefer to see Bed Maker banned still too because it will be annoying in some games when someone gets wildly early growth when nobody else can, but overall it probably won't show up as too good on average.

I also see a few calls for removing Big Country form the ban list, and I just want to continue to advocate for it staying on--the previous stats dump shows it is still very strong, with limited data, and it still shows up as the highest elo/play, far above most other strong cards. (I think a very high elo/play shows a card should be banned, as it helps players achieve wins and seconds that their skill otherwise suggests they shouldn't be able to get. A ban list for strength is trying to help even out the card luck so skill can show through, putting Big Country back in would be in obvious opposition to that goal).

[Grumbleguts]

Siv's list looks good, including weakling that is:

B022 Hayloft Barn, B023 Walking Boots, C031 Writing Chamber, C063 Craft brewery, D033 Summer House, C099 Garden Designer, B132 Estate Master, A048 Shaving Horse, A039 Chapel, C125 Nightworker, B161 Weakling.

[alsozatch]

Agree with above list

[torvaldur_makan]

I agree with that list to start with.

I need to continue monitoring Collector and Childless. Even though we all love playing with them, the next stats might prove them too strong.

[siverure]

Apologies to everyone for starting discussion again.

Two things have made me change my mind on what I would propose for the banlist.
1) I realized I forgot about another newest card on my definite banlist: D021 recruitment. While I am okay allowing inconsistent stage 1 growth, a card that enables it by itself with zero combos seems too much.

2) I deliberately avoided existing cards. I broadly speaking think the existing banlist is fine as is, I mostly don't want to add anything and definitely do not want to take anything off the banlist. However, the likelihood that the next season with be draft 7/10, and on further consideration of just how good the card is anyway right now makes me want to ban C028 teacher's desk.

Informant, Collector seem in line with other strong cards so I don't really want to ban them.

[Pepikos]

I do agree with most statements you made siverure, but i think we shoudn't ban cards that become stronger in 7/10 draft, we most likely will see that Grainseeds and DL cards will also become stronger with the larger draft. I hope we will get back to 7/8 one day and think its better to collect data first before we ban more, FW was a 99% bannable card and now we all agree that its a strong but good to have card.

[Ranior]

I am hopeful we can still get Recruitment added to the ban list asap. I don't like changing things mid season, but we need to get that added in. It's just too reliable a way to get grow in R3/4, which is totally game warping and often way too strong, especially in R6/7 grow games.

[Grumbleguts]

I am hopeful we can still get Recruitment added to the ban list asap. I don't like changing things mid season, but we need to get that added in. It's just too reliable a way to get grow in R3/4, which is totally game warping and often way too strong, especially in R6/7 grow games.

I didn't see Recruitment until now, and I agree this should be banned. This looks even stronger than Hayloft Barn as a growth enabler since it's easier to play (yes you need to build a room, but if you just play this like Childless you can probably just grow in round 3 a lot of the time, which is bonkers).

eg.
Round 1: 3w -> SP Recruitment
Round 2: 2r -> 2w
Round 3: build room -> Improvements/SP to grow family

[alsozatch]

Yes please ban recruitment ASAP it was simply forgotten on the previous list. Very busted

[QBert]

Agree Recruitment needs to be banned ASAP. What a silly card. I had to read it three times to make sure I wasn't missing anything because I was sure a card like this would be insta-banned.