Possible Variant to change Tile Number 6 in the new version back to the old version?

[Pistol Star]

Hello,

So tile number 6 in the new version is so utterly broken, that it just determines the winner right away if a player can get it in the first 2 phases and even often in the 3rd phase.

Apart of this change I think most changes in the new versions are very, very good changes, so is there any chance to offer a variant of playing the new version with the old tile number 6?

I am sure that a lot of users would very much welcome this variant. Especially once more players realize how strong this new tile number 6 is.

[funkdoc]

Seconding this - if not the variant, at least the option to play without Knowledge Tile 6 in the 2019 edition (similar to how BGA includes the option not to play with Board 8). This tile is more broken than Board 8...currently in a game right now against a player who got to take & place it on the very first turn of the game and it's just been utterly hopeless. The mines, ships & good knowledge tiles get cleared out and you'll only get a couple from all those groups in each phase at most. It's very feasible to fill the entire board with this tile, something i've never seen come close to happening in the old edition.

Here's the most succinct way i can put it: The new Knowledge Tile 6 basically turns an average board into Board 8. No exaggeration, my last game using that tile was on Board 4 and i finished with virtually the same score i did on my last game with Board 8.

[Pistol Star]

Seconding this - if not the variant, at least the option to play without Knowledge Tile 6 in the 2019 edition (similar to how BGA includes the option not to play with Board 8). This tile is more broken than Board 8...currently in a game right now against a player who got to take & place it on the very first turn of the game and it's just been utterly hopeless. The mines, ships & good knowledge tiles get cleared out and you'll only get a couple from all those groups in each phase at most. It's very feasible to fill the entire board with this tile, something i've never seen come close to happening in the old edition.

Here's the most succinct way i can put it: The new Knowledge Tile 6 basically turns an average board into Board 8. No exaggeration, my last game using that tile was on Board 4 and i finished with virtually the same score i did on my last game with Board 8.

I would even say it is an understatement that this tile turns an average board into board 8

[fafa-fr]

So tile number 6 in the new version is so utterly broken, that it just determines the winner right away if a player can get it in the first 2 phases and even often in the 3rd phase.

Ah, finally someone mentioning this problem! I didn't want to mention it first myself, to see when it would be pointed at. I'm a bit surprised that it wasn't brought up before. There was only one player that said something about this in the game ratings.

The problem with the variant you suggest is that BGA only accepts official variants. But I think I'll try to ask Stefan Feld on BGG to see if he would agree to oficially approve this variant.

[Pistol Star]

So tile number 6 in the new version is so utterly broken, that it just determines the winner right away if a player can get it in the first 2 phases and even often in the 3rd phase.

Ah, finally someone mentioning this problem! I didn't want to mention it first myself, to see when it would be pointed at. I'm a bit surprised that it wasn't brought up before. There was only one player that said something about this in the game ratings.

The problem with the variant you suggest is that BGA only accepts official variants. But I think I'll try to ask Stefan Feld on BGG to see if he would agree to oficially approve this variant.

That would be truly awesome if you could do that. Much appreciated!
I've also tried to do that a year ago but somehow couldn't find a way to message him on boardgamegeek.com.

[Niall]

After a few games with this tile (luckily for me where I’ve been able to grab it each time!) I utterly concur with all of the above about knowledge tile number 6. It changes the game completely and makes ship dominance somehow even more essential than before.

Thanks for your attempts contacting Stefan Feld - great initiative!

May I suggest that if it’s not possible to alter this tile in the 2019 edition on BGA, that (when it comes) the Arena version of this game is played in the first edition by default? It is far more competitively balanced (and therefore a truer test of skill) without the hyper-powered yellow 6.

[Niall]

What if it took 3 or maybe 4 workers to buy a tile instead of 2? It would perhaps still be OP in combo with the die>4 workers knowledge tile, but less so than at the moment. If it was underpowered before, and overpowered now, at what point in between might there be balance? My gut tells me more than 3 and less than 4 workers, but edging towards 3.

4 workers to buy would make banks and boarding houses equivalent in purchasing power.

But selling goods gets you 1 coin and some points (can become 2 plus more points with upgrades) - so it takes 2 turns to buy a tile, which can be upgraded to make it one turn. Taking workers gets you 2, which can be upgraded to 4, but it doesn’t give you points. Therefore 2 workers are “more expensive” to get than 1 coin.

So 4 workers is a harsher price than 2 coins, especially when workers give you other options and coins don’t.

Of course, being able to use any amount of workers to buy tiles is greater tactical utility than the original yellow 6 tile gave, but with greater cost in workers there would come a point where I don’t think you’d ever use the option as it’s too expensive. Probably around the 5/6 workers mark it becomes a meaningless upgrade.

It would need play-testing to refine (wish they’d done this before!), and I guess we’re not here to redevelop the game, but just an idea that I thought might be interesting to discuss.

[Reidar55]

I've wanted to make the same suggestion. This tile is too powerful!

I'd like to have it as an optional inclusion, or, alternatively, a modification to the rules so that you can't sacrifice a dice to obtain workers and then use the #6 in the same turn. At least that would curb the power slightly. Currently this tile is a complete "wild card", you can take any tile on the board.

[Pistol Star]

What if it took 3 or maybe 4 workers to buy a tile instead of 2? It would perhaps still be OP in combo with the die>4 workers knowledge tile, but less so than at the moment. If it was underpowered before, and overpowered now, at what point in between might there be balance? My gut tells me more than 3 and less than 4 workers, but edging towards 3.

4 workers to buy would make banks and boarding houses equivalent in purchasing power.

But selling goods gets you 1 coin and some points (can become 2 plus more points with upgrades) - so it takes 2 turns to buy a tile, which can be upgraded to make it one turn. Taking workers gets you 2, which can be upgraded to 4, but it doesn’t give you points. Therefore 2 workers are “more expensive” to get than 1 coin.

So 4 workers is a harsher price than 2 coins, especially when workers give you other options and coins don’t.

Of course, being able to use any amount of workers to buy tiles is greater tactical utility than the original yellow 6 tile gave, but with greater cost in workers there would come a point where I don’t think you’d ever use the option as it’s too expensive. Probably around the 5/6 workers mark it becomes a meaningless upgrade.

It would need play-testing to refine (wish they’d done this before!), and I guess we’re not here to redevelop the game, but just an idea that I thought might be interesting to discuss.

Tbh I do think that the original tile is in most situations already very strong pretty much regardless at what stage in the game.
I even find very good use in getting it during Phase E on multiple occasions.
Even for the cost of 4 workers to buy anything from anywhere the tile would be substantially stronger than it already is as you can still also buy with 2 silver.
The flexibility it gives would be even greater than in the original version.
And once you have a worker engine with tile 2 (mines produce workers) and/or tile 14 (sell dice for 4 workers) we would face the same problem again.
Also imagine the incredible combo of Tile 13 (sell dice for 2 workers and 1 silver), 14 and 6 even when the buying cost would be increased to 4 workers/2 silver.
The combo 13+6 is already insanely strong in the original edition.
I agree with you that probably 6 workers would be the threshold here. Maybe 7 in extreme cases.

[jspluxonar]

Just wanted to concur with everyone here, the tile is too strong. At worst, it makes one of your dice into a wild for grabbing a tile. (turn into 2 workers, use two workers to grab from anywhere) At best, you can pair it with knowledge 14 or a boarding house to net yourself 2 grab actions for one action.