Is next player’s roll what you would have rolled?

[FT3]

You’re progressing on columns x, y and z, you’re one from the top of column x but it just seems too risky, you choose to stop and save progress and hope no one else wins before your next turn...

Then the next player’s dice are rolled and he/she gets x - the number you needed to win, if you had chosen to continue would you have got the numbers that the next player ended up getting?

Basically, my question is about the way the game is programmed, anyone know?

[voriki]

I can't say exactly, but I doubt that.

The RNG (random number generator) would only kick in for each roll, otherwise by the start of the game it could already keep a hidden list of the first 100 rolls generates just once at the start of the game, regardless of players choices.

[Jest Phulin]

The RNG function on BGA is a server-wide call. IE, for every game that requires a random number, the function is called when that game needs it. In any given second, it may send 4 dice to Can't Stop, 2 dice to backgammon, 5 dice to Seasons, a deck shuffle to Race for the Galaxy, 4 dice to a different Can't Stop game, a board setup to Chess960, etc., etc.
The fact that your opponent rolled X doesn't mean that you would have (considering the microsecond delay in saving the progress earned and switching the active player). It just means that you'll remember it more, and think the dice and the site are against you.

[FT3]

The RNG function on BGA is a server-wide call. IE, for every game that requires a random number, the function is called when that game needs it. In any given second, it may send 4 dice to Can't Stop, 2 dice to backgammon, 5 dice to Seasons, a deck shuffle to Race for the Galaxy, 4 dice to a different Can't Stop game, a board setup to Chess960, etc., etc.
The fact that your opponent rolled X doesn't mean that you would have (considering the microsecond delay in saving the progress earned and switching the active player). It just means that you'll remember it more, and think the dice and the site are against you.

Interesting, thank you! I never would have thought that all games share the same randomiser, it’s good to know that much like rolling the dice yourself or putting them in someone else’s hands to roll the results will be different.

I’ve never thought the dice were against me, well maybe sometimes, but always wonder if the next player getting the number I needed meant I’d quit too soon.

[toddcarson]

The RNG (random number generator) would only operate once each roll; alternatively, it may preserve a concealed list of the first 100 rolls generated at the beginning of the game, independent of the decisions made by the players.

[euklid314]

As Jest Phulin explained correctly, a random number is generated by the RNG exactly when it is needed. The random numbers are never precomputed at any time and stored to be retrieved later. From a mathematicians standpoint both methods would give fair results though, since previous dice throws never influence future dice throws. From a security standpoint storing future values would be unsafe since any "hacker" that could retrieve this information somehow could gain an advantage.

The OP question is similar to "I play the physical copy of the game. Is the dice roll of the next opponent the same as I would have got?" The answer is no, obviously, both in real life and on BGA. Interesting question, though!

But one can delve into it further. What if I play the physical copy and after I stop a column I say to my playing partners: "I have stopped the column but I want to roll the dice because I am curious if I would have won. The next roll will not count for the game." If you then roll a winning number have you actually "proven" that you would have been lucky? In my opinion: "No! Since you spent some time while chatting with your playing partners you would have had a completely different roll. Also perhaps your hands would have been trembling a little bit more if it was really the dice throw that had counted and not a dice throw that was just for fun. So your hands would have behaved slightly differntly and thus rolled other numbers."

The same it is on BGA. If you wait a millisecond longer with your decision you will get another result. Not because the dice from a millisecond ago were already used up in a different game but simply because the RNG uses a different seed for its algorithm at every moment.

[SquashEngineer]

I sense … conspiracy. Those Yahtzee dice a ag’in me every time, I say!!!!

[dschingis27]

Very interesting thoughts and I agree with all of it! It is interesting though to compare dice rolls to drawing cards from a hidden stack. From a mathematical viewpoint, rolling the next dice is equally random to drawing a hidden card. However, euklid314 gave some good arguments for why dice rolls would be different under different conditions even in the real world (game has ended or not, next player's turn or my turn), the same is not true for drawing cards. If there is a physical stack of hidden cards in front of you, the next card you draw from the top is always the same, no matter who's turn it is. So the question "What would have happened, had I drawn the next card?" is somewhat different to "What would happen if I take the next dice roll?" I think on BGA, even the next card from a stack is not pre-determined at game start (as opposed to the real world) but randomly generated when needed. From a mathematical viewpoint (which is of course the "correct" perspective ), it doesn't really matter. From a human perspective, the fact that the next card is "generated" only at runtime is a little alien to us.

[euklid314]

On BGA they use random_int() to get dice values or any random "pick a number" event. But they use the PHP-method "Shuffle" to shuffle decks. If I understand that correctly, the shuffle-algorithm returns the whole shuffled deck as its output. Thus the whole state of a deck after shuffling is predetermined and stored - which simulates real time play.

[ExaltedAngel]

always wonder if the next player getting the number I needed meant I’d quit too soon.

From a mathematical point of view it's just wrong to judge a move AFTER the RNG applies.

I'll make an example to explain: let's say you are in a situation where you have the chance to gamble 10$, if you win you double your money, if you lose you lose it all. The odds of winning are 40%. Accepting the gamble is just plain wrong, the expected value of your bet is -2$. It doesn't matter if then you win, the choice was wrong.

Can't stop is a bit more complicated than this because even if evaluating the chance of failing is not too hard, it's a lot more difficult to judge the expected value of a move, but the same principles apply: if u were able to perfectly estimate that, any move can be considered right or wrong regardless of its result. This means I wouldn't care about what was the possible result of the last roll u never took, or blame yourself for taking the roll that made you waste the progress of the turn, just focus on making the best choices BEFORE the roll, anything that happens after the roll just doesn't matter and shouldn't affect in any way your judgement about the choice.

I hope it is clear, english is not my native language