Hanabi bots' ELO - are they still valid?

[Wreckage]

On a PC, if you hover your mouse pointer over my "993" ELO, it shows that I went from 993.32 to 993.32.

[Stroom]

So I believe, if an awesome team of 5 players started new accounts and only played with the exact same team, they would reach a ceiling of 1010-1030 with an absolute ceiling of about 1035.

I think ELO should be capped at 1040 for Hanabi then. Anyone who intentionally plays with lower leveled players to increase their own score is just gaming the system. Maybe it will stop people abandoning games then...

[Travis Hall]

On a PC, if you hover your mouse pointer over my "993" ELO, it shows that I went from 993.32 to 993.32.

Ah. I usually visit BGA on a tablet. I don’t have a mouse pointer, so no hovering for me.

[Travis Hall]

I think ELO should be capped at 1040 for Hanabi then. Anyone who intentionally plays with lower leveled players to increase their own score is just gaming the system. Maybe it will stop people abandoning games then...

But if a player can play with players whose scores have reached equilibrium at a lower level (so accurately reflecting their skill) and cause the team to more consistently achieve perfect scores than a group of players all rated 1040, isn’t that indicative of even higher skill?

Leave it alone. If it is capped by a rounding error (as seems to be the case, with what Wreckage has pointed out) and people are still gaming it, that’s good enough. People aren’t thinking about how it is calculated when they choose to game it.

[Wreckage]

I looked up a few games from history. I saw a table of 4 players with an average of ELO of 951 who gained 0.00 for scoring 30. This shows the equilibrium for 4 players is 951 or lower. I also saw a 2p table with an average of 1038 who gained 0.00, so my guess of 1035 is pretty close.

So, this has been said a thousand times, but to solve the abandoned game issue, there really needs to be a penalty for abandoned games! I hope if they ever do try to fix the ELO system for hanabi, they also reset every player's rating back to 0.

That being said, almost all of my games are played on training mode, and I still abandon games sometimes. There are other reasons to abandon besides ELO. Usually it's because right after we start, we see the settings aren't what we want, or a friend just showed up who we want to include, or any multitude of reasons. Even with these reasons, I would still support a penalty for abandoned games.

[Stroom]

True. Abandoning must give -10 points. This would stop the low skilled elo hunters.

ELO cap would not matter then. In 2p a higher skilled player playing with a lower skilled player: elo should not be calculated as average between these players. What people can do is to find players who are actually really good but have intentionally bombed their elo to be as low as possible. And if they play, it just helps the higher skilled player gain score it wouldn't usually gain if it played at its' own level. You could just create 2-3 users to artificially increase elo of one player.

I'd propose that elo should be the same as the highest elo player (abandoning = loss has to be implemented too). Then there's going to be less elo cheaters as well. You'd rather play with higher skilled players as elo would display skill more.

[Wreckage]

I don't think anyone would bomb some games to keep their ELO low, they would just start a new account at 0.

I'd propose that elo should be the same as the highest elo player (abandoning = loss has to be implemented too). Then there's going to be less elo cheaters as well. You'd rather play with higher skilled players as elo would display skill more.

This is an interesting idea. If your ELO was really high, then you would look for the BEST partners regardless of their rating. If you had low ELO, then you could plod your way up with high level partners and better scores, or play with lower ranked players for more ELO on your good scores.

I like it.

[Matt in the Hat]

Here are a couple a 3 player games where the ELO gain is 0.00 for a score of 30.

How can you tell? The point gain on those pages is rounded to an integer.

Desktop browser: Mouse over the ELOs to see them to two decimals.

[Blacktango]

This is an interesting idea. If your ELO was really high, then you would look for the BEST partners regardless of their rating. If you had low ELO, then you could plod your way up with high level partners and better scores, or play with lower ranked players for more ELO on your good scores.

Then Master players will never open their table to strong or even expert players ever again…

Then Masters/experts never teach, and less experienced are left alone

[Stroom]

This is an interesting idea. If your ELO was really high, then you would look for the BEST partners regardless of their rating. If you had low ELO, then you could plod your way up with high level partners and better scores, or play with lower ranked players for more ELO on your good scores.

Then Master players will never open their table to strong or even expert players ever again…

Then Masters/experts never teach, and less experienced are left alone

Less experienced players would gain much more elo by playing with people from their own level. They will reach master pretty fast. And as they gain level, they also will gain knowledge about how each elo range plays the game.

Also, most masters who play with expert and lower elo players usually do it to gain elo for themselves. At least from my experience.