Board Game Arena

Recently I worked on Connect Four maintenance and added various stuff, such as a confirm button.
While fixing bugs and creating new features, I found out there were too many players whose moves match solver's 100%, especially among >500s.
Connect Four solver is readily available and BGA cannot regulate it properly, allowing solvers to take over.
This led to the closure of all competitive features, for now.
Please read this thread for more information: viewtopic.php?f=320&t=22201&start=10#p95299

So I added new board sizes and opening rules to handle this issue while balancing the game.
8x8, 9x9, and 10x10 options will be added.
Also, new opening rules will be available: pie rule, and swap rule.
(Yes, the latter sends you to the correct page: I borrowed it from Gomoku opening rules)
As a consequence, 6x7 board size will be limited as a training mode only option.

To reopen competitive features, all ratings have to be reset, or cheaters can 'regain' rank trophies by playing only 1 game.
Plus, reset makes genuine players to regain (and advance) rating quicker than before.
Eventually strong players without any solver usage will obtain previously inaccessible trophies naturally.
In contrast, players resorted to solvers won't stand a chance in the new format.
Thus I propose a fresh start to reopen all BGA features for Connect Four.

While I understand and applaud your intent, I doubt the situation is different in other games ike Chess, Draughts, Neutreeko, etc.

Sounds like a great approach you are taking.

megamau wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 10:42 While I understand and applaud your intent, I doubt the situation is different in other games ike Chess, Draughts, Neutreeko, etc.

I also worked on Gomoku, but I didn't (and will never) propose reset there.
Because the issue cannot be resolved by reset or new rules, and actually a reset would worsen the situation.

However, the biggest difference from the games you mentioned is removing solver by adding new board sizes and opening rules.
It is possible to remove the malignancy out of the system of Connect Four (that's why some other board game sites added new board sizes).

This is so weird. Where is the joy in letting a solver determine your moves 100% of the time? And to play that way often enough to have a 500 elo in that game?

Sorry for my naivete, but how can changing the board size and doing the swap for early moves reduce cheating? It really feels like if anything, you are making it slightly more difficult but surely expanding the number of columns does not stop the solvers from just adjusting, right?

Holy Jam wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:21 This is so weird. Where is the joy in letting a solver determine your moves 100% of the time? And to play that way often enough to have a 500 elo in that game?

Well, bragging about their win rates and trophies?

Holy Jam wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:21 Sorry for my naivete, but how can changing the board size and doing the swap for early moves reduce cheating? It really feels like if anything, you are making it slightly more difficult but surely expanding the number of columns does not stop the solvers from just adjusting, right?

The solvers in question use a database acquired through brute force and does not support board size of 8x8 or larger.
So... expanding the number of rows and columns and adding opening rules actually throw the entire solvers into the bin.

As a consequence, 6x7 board size will be limited as a training mode only option. - would be surprised if the number of games played for connect 4 drop less than 30%.

I like how you say 'long overdue bugs and inconveniences' in the group, hope being included in the 'game developers' list give you more joy than having premium until 2071, if BGA is still here or if you are still here

Connect 4 is a small family game, and it is a solved game, a high school kid can learn perfect play within a week. But you look it as chess. The way you improve the game reminds me of how Hong Kong government improves the election system, they call it 'improve', in Chinese ‘完善'. Fun

wontaketoomuchtime wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:54 As a consequence, 6x7 board size will be limited as a training mode only option. - would be surprised if the number of games played for connect 4 drop less than 30%.

The number of games will drop for sure. Bye solver abusers. Good riddance.

wontaketoomuchtime wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:54 I like how you say 'long overdue bugs and inconveniences' in the group, hope being included in the 'game developers' list give you more joy than having premium until 2071, if BGA is still here or if you are still here

Ad hominem without any basis, thanks.

wontaketoomuchtime wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:54 Connect 4 is a small family game, and it is a solved game, a high school kid can learn perfect play within a week. But you look it as chess. The way you improve the game reminds me of how Hong Kong government improves the election system, they call it 'improve', in Chinese ‘完善'. Fun

So, what are you trying to say? A high school kid can memorize 4,531,985,219,092 positions within a week?
This is not chess, but also is not tic-tac-toe.
Foundations of the game did not change at all. What is the point of your false analogy?
Does adding just columns or rows bother you that much? For what reason?

ufm wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 16:09

wontaketoomuchtime wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:54 As a consequence, 6x7 board size will be limited as a training mode only option. - would be surprised if the number of games played for connect 4 drop less than 30%.

The number of games will drop for sure. Bye solver abusers. Good riddance.

wontaketoomuchtime wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:54 I like how you say 'long overdue bugs and inconveniences' in the group, hope being included in the 'game developers' list give you more joy than having premium until 2071, if BGA is still here or if you are still here

Ad hominem without any basis, thanks.

wontaketoomuchtime wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 15:54 Connect 4 is a small family game, and it is a solved game, a high school kid can learn perfect play within a week. But you look it as chess. The way you improve the game reminds me of how Hong Kong government improves the election system, they call it 'improve', in Chinese ‘完善'. Fun

So, what are you trying to say? A high school kid can remember 4,531,985,219,092 positions within a week?
This is not chess, but also is not tic-tac-toe.
Foundations of the game did not change at all. What is the point of your false analogy?
Does adding just columns or rows bother you that much? For what reason?

Most players are casual players, they don't care about cheating. the 6x7 connect4 has low tactical depth and it is a solved game, I agree the arena for it is meaningless. But it is also the original connect4, it is what casual players want to play, they just want to have fun, they don't go to forum, they just want to play. If you force 6x7 connect4 into training mode, or switching it away from the default mode, I think it is not good, because it is what most people want to play, not other version or other size. Most players don't care about the competitive feature that you mention or propose to make it a more actually competitive game. If you make these changes, number of games played drop drastically mean less people can have fun of what they are currently having. So your dedication on making this game competitive, is against to the main will of the majority of players who just want to play the game.

wontaketoomuchtime wrote: ↑27 September 2021, 16:25 Most players are casual players, they don't care about cheating. the 6x7 connect4 has low tactical depth and it is a solved game, I agree the arena for it is meaningless. But it is also the original connect4, it is what casual players want to play, they just want to have fun, they don't go to forum, they just want to play. If you force 6x7 connect4 into training mode, or switching it away from the default mode, I think it is not good, because it is what most people want to play, not other version or other size. Most players don't care about the competitive feature that you mention or propose to make it a more actually competitive game. If you make these changes, number of games played drop drastically mean less people can have fun of what they are currently having. So your dedication on making this game competitive, is against to the main will of the majority of players who just want to play the game.

False dichotomy this time.
I didn't ban or remove 6x7, but changed it as a training mode only option to exclude it from competitive formats.
ELO is a competitive feature per se. If you want to play casual games just go ahead and play 6x7 on training mode.
Playing 6x7 competitively? BGA is not your ideal place for that. Try somewhere else.
Also, the default is still 6x7. Problem solved.