Board Game Arena

I think we can all agree that a game like Hanabi, where your outcome depends on trust in (often) complete strangers, can put people a little more on edge than some other games. (And many of us might say we trust strangers even less after the last 18 months.) I completely understand that emotions can run high with players--for myriad reasons--but have to say I'm a bit let down that one of my favorite games to turn to when I need to lower stress levels has felt especially contentious lately. So, I don't know that ANYONE will read this, but I still thought I'd take a minute to explain my preference to not abandon games, in case there's anyone out there wondering why people would have a different opinion on this. (And if you do disagree with me but take the time to read this and try and understand my perspective, thank you! If we could only extend this type of communication past Hanabi and apply it to things like politics! Lol.)

**Please read this knowing this is my own perspective that I am choosing to apply for myself. I do not judge or put expectations on anyone else for not thinking the same way I do, or for simply having a different set of priorities. As the title states, this is an explanation, not an accusation. None of this is to suggest that other players lack integrity or morality! Please read this knowing that I am only hoping to promote understanding and communication, not contention.**

There are a few life philosophies I have that I really believe in, to the point that I try to apply them in *every* aspect of my life--even in things as small as online games. As a recovering perfectionist, one idea I'm always trying to learn from is the idea that perfection is not attainable, and that I can live a much fuller life if I let go of that being a goal or expectation. My mistakes are part of who I am and are not something I need to be secretive about or ashamed of. I often must remind myself that when I fall short of perfection, this does not stop me from progressing, and I can actually learn a lot more from the mistakes. I consider my integrity to be one of my most valuable assets, as well as one of the few things in this world I actually have any real control over.

So, with that overarching approach (which I truly do try my best to apply to *every* situation), when it comes to my own ELO score, I feel like I want my cumulative score to reflect all the games I've played--those where I've played well and those where I've not played so well. Factoring in those poorer performances gives me more motivation to try and be better the next time so I can make up for any points I might have lost. I don't want to act like I've never played poorly; I have! (And continue to many times, especially when I venture into a new variant I'm hoping to learn.) I'm not as good as many other players out there and certainly still have a lot to learn. All the strategies and communication styles are what make the game so fun for me. For that reason, my preference is not to abandon games but to play them to the end--to see how well we can recover from a mistake and how high of a score we can still achieve, even if we know that perfection isn't attainable anymore. I love when a table makes a mistake that seems extremely costly but still rallies and ends up with a high score, even if it's not a perfect score. So, that's why I choose not to abandon games.

Again, I do not judge anyone else who is concerned with their score or has a different point of view. If I am at a table where everyone else wishes to abandon, I will consider the wishes of the group, although I may not immediately jump to accepting the abandon button. I may take a minute to go down to the chat and mention that I prefer not to abandon, and why don't we see how well we can recover. If the group responds that they are not interested in doing that and their scores are important to them, I will of course comply and won't be a jerk about it. I'll abandon if no one else is interested. However, even just that slight pause to express my preference has led to quite a few mean-spirited comments and blockings lately.

Now, I am not out here to talk about my feelings being hurt; this is not something I take personally. But it is disappointing (1) because this is my stress reliever, so mean comments (toward me or anyone else at the table) kind of stir some of the stress back up at times, but more so, (2) now that Hanabi requires premium membership and we're not under lockdown, there just don't seem to be as many players on the site anymore. Particularly players that know some of the more advanced strategies, which are so much fun to play. Therefore, when I get the notification that one person has given me that red thumbs-down, I'm unable to join entire tables of players who I know I otherwise play well with, even if we have different thoughts on abandoning games. Like I said, I won't stop the group from abandoning if that's what everyone else wants, so it's a harsh punishment to not be able to join at all for expressing my preference. I don't have a solution to this, other than to put my thoughts out into the ether in case anyone cares to read them.

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this, for being open to trying to understand where I'm coming from. I do appreciate all the lovely conversations I've had with so many of you as we've played and learned from or taught each other. (I've had as many positive conversations as negative while playing, if not more.) I hope if anyone does read this, it can help lessen contention by even just a little bit among all of us to understand each other. If you have reasons you prefer to abandon that you think I might not have considered (I'd especially love to hear if there are thoughts on abandoning that go beyond ELO score, because I've never considered any other reason for abandoning!), please comment, as I'd love to hear and consider your perspective as well!

P.S. If you happen to be in the same boat as me and prefer not to abandon games, please add me as a friend and let's play sometime!

Thanks for reading.

I'd especially love to hear if there are thoughts on abandoning that go beyond ELO score, because I've never considered any other reason for abandoning!

CamberNichole, thank you for such a detailed explanation, it was interesting and useful to me. But I would like to clarify that ELO is not the only reason for abandoning. In one old russian film there is a main phrase - "happiness is when you are understood". I think this is the main reason why we play this game. And if from the very first moves it becomes clear that there is no understanding at all at this table, then... why? Where is happiness? To go to the end and get 22 instead of 21? Another reason is aggressive comments in the chat. When I see something like this "hey, apotap, do you know finesse?" or "why not red???" after my mistake or after something that my partner just thinks is a mistake - I have a great temptation to suggest abandoning right now. Why? I don't have a task to find a common language with every stranger. I just want to enjoy the game. Thank God there are enough people here with whom this happens.

Two reasons for players collectively abandon on purpose in my opinion:
- they are ELO suckers (it's lame)
- they play only to achieve perfect game and want to save time when game is lost (it's legitimate)

I will not consider the reason where some players pressure one player supposedly making mistakes to accept a collective abandon (it's rude).

Now, remember it's just a game: is it worth your time finishing when one online stakeholder wants to abort? my guess is no (whatever the game is actually). And if it's an unpleasant experience? Red Thumb that stranger and move on, I fear you won't change them...

Cheers,
Y.

P.S.: I play Hanabi occasionally in real life, not on BGA.

Players who abandon after a mistake are usually horrible players.

The dynamic around this is that they want to quit at the first sight of a difficult deck (sometimes max score is still possible). Since they never play through these difficult situations, they never get better either. So they just keep quitting and never really improve their skill level. They never try to use more advanced tactics so they keep making the same stupid mistakes, quitting the game and not trying to understand how they should have played instead.

Playing to always get a max score - that is pretty much the same as playing for ELO. At a high enough level, even (max-1) results in negative ELO. Sometimes the deck sucks. You have to get over it and play at your best ability and accept the score you get.

Sometimes, it is impossible to get a max score anyway - if you discarded a 4 and the other 4 of the same color is the last card in the deck. I've seen people try to abandon even those games.

I have red-thumbed SO MANY players due to abandoning or intentionally bombing the games once they realize I never abandon games.

Very well written! This is how I feel about abandoning games as well. I'm always willing to play until the end no matter how badly it's going, because mistakes are learning opportunities and at the end of the day, it's just a game. And anyway there's a point we reach in our ELOs where a win is only worth 1 or 2 points, so to me, a perfect win isn't really a big deal. In fact, I don't mind my ELO being low because then, people won't perceive I know everything about the game. I'm still learning a lot of tricks the more I play.

I don't know if there's a way to promote less of an abandoning culture with this game. What makes me sad is that a lot of newer players are having poor interactions with people who get aggressive in the chat, or abandon at the first mistake (this was my rite of passage... somehow I managed to stick it out). It's a great game and I want more people to enjoy it.

For a time, I was the person with the most logged plays of Hanabi on BoardGameGeek. (This was well before the implementation here.)

What I'm saying is: I love the game. And I've avoided playing it here as part of "the community" (as opposed to friends) precisely because of the weird, play-warping behavior people exhibit. Bailing on games and getting angry when the proscribed meta isn't "perfectly followed" (for very personal definitions of that) is zero fun.

It makes me sad. So: good pushin' back, CamberNichole.

Apotap, thank you so much for sharing your perspective! I love your quote from the Russian film. It's actually very similar (nearly identical) to something I've been considering about how I want to treat others and be treated more often: I think so many people just want to feel seen and don't. So the fact that we'd read each other's comments coming from differing views is one step to combat that--so thank you for reading and sharing!

I agree with most if not all of the points you make (even if our ultimate action is not always identical), especially how mean comments from people trying to exert control of the game (talk about feeling unseen!) can ruin the fun so quickly, as many of the other commenters also expressed. I think your comments also really speak to kilolima's point about how this dynamic can ruin the experience for newer players who may never get to enjoy the game because they have only had such negative experiences and are less likely to give it another try. I actually have an IRL friend who I play with online who really dislikes the game and prefers not to play when we play online as friends because she's had such negative experiences with that.

I don't know what the solution is. (I don't think it comes down to abandon vs. don't abandon. It obviously stems from a deeper root than that.) I'll continue trying to be positive and encouraging and sharing what I've learned with those who might still be learning and being appreciative of those who are kind about trying to teach me. That's what feels within my realm of control, but if there's something we can do that might have a bigger impact on the BGA Hanabi community and create more positive experiences in the chats, I would love to get a team to crack that code!

Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts!

Hanabi is a challenging game and a perfect score isn't possible for many decks, so I think abandoning, because you cannot get a perfect score is strange behaviour. It really doesn't serve any purpose. ELO is just a number.

I still think it makes sense to abandon a game, if it becomes frustrating for other reasons. Multiple misunderstandings between players who don't know each other or misclicks for example. Or some type of repeated uncooperative behaviour by a player. Something like refusing to play a card, just because there are still clues and they like cluing more.

I don't want to suffer through an upsetting game.

Aurorafalter wrote: ↑22 November 2021, 18:04 ELO is just a number.
I don't want to suffer through an upsetting game.

Exactly!
But ok, after reading this forum I agree to suffer a little more often

Fortunately most people who are ELO addicts will eventually start playing two player Hanabi (which I will never understand the draw of) and their ELO will just keep going up, up, up while meaning absolutely nothing (unlike, say, a Chess ELO).

There's a "no abandons" group on hanabi here with quite a few players in it. You should join!