The game is too random

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SportsClown
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 February 2021, 22:42

The game is too random

Post by SportsClown »

The problem is not randomness per se, but the fact that you can not control it in any way. If players are familiar with the game, games are decided randomly and you can not do anything about. For instance, it is usually useful to play green cards in the beginning, as green cards will usually facilitate your progress later on. However, if there are good green tokens available, both players will go for green cards and it is random who will get these tokens first, as there is no really way to facilitate your own progress towards them or prevent your opponents from getting them.

Another example is that getting 3 of the same resource to construct your wonder stage is often a bottleneck - if one player is able to draw golds at that point of the game, that is a huge advantage, which you can not affect in any way. Having green tokens which allow you to draw extra cards (or Engineering) can also help, but remember that it is random who will get them in the beginning, so it is randomness^2.

The worst is, of course, that very often later in the game, all players end up just drawing from the hidden deck, because visible cards are not useful (one reason for that is that military is not strong enough in the game, but often this also happens due to resources nobody needs). In the beginning of the game, this is often alleviated by the fact that many wonders force you take face-up cards, but later in the game there is really no way around it. So it is like playing a Russian roulette.

There are many similar games which are also quite random, but where you are actually able to control randomness. Happy City is an example. There you can go for cards, which give you less points right now, but allow you to stress less about which cards are available later on. Similarly, many specific buildings require taking lesser cards now to stress less about which cards are available later. The most important thing is that there are actually sensible and balanced trade-offs in a sense that a player who went for a specific special building and a player who went for direct scoring are likely to have a close game. Also in regular 7 Wonders (although it is actually not a very similar game), there is clear profiling, so one player can go green, another red etc. In 7 Wonders Architects there is nothing like that: there is one path to victory and it is randomly determined - if you, say, completely randomly missed green cards in the beginning of a game with good green tokens, it is gg: working on your wonder or drawing blues is not going to save you. It would be ok if something like that would only be occasional, but literally every game with 200+ ELO players is something like I described above.
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Pr-Somni
Posts: 16
Joined: 14 December 2020, 16:58

Re: The game is too random

Post by Pr-Somni »

Don't forget that it is a game made for beginners. It has to be simple, don't wait too much from it.
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robinzig
Posts: 414
Joined: 11 February 2021, 18:23

Re: The game is too random

Post by robinzig »

Yeah. I don't disagree with what you're saying - but that's just how the game is. And certainly not BGA's fault - BGA has to implement the game according to the official rules from the publisher (including any official-sanctioned variants if they are given in the rulebook). Just don't play it if you don't like it, as with any other game :)
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nccc
Posts: 627
Joined: 25 August 2019, 12:45

Re: The game is too random

Post by nccc »

A random and unfair game,which dont even have SAME rounds for every player. Won't play it again.
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Slimeria
Posts: 1
Joined: 12 January 2022, 14:00

Re: The game is too random

Post by Slimeria »

On BGA it actually takes longer to play this "lite" version of 7 Wonders because the turns are asynchronous and often the game does not feel far removed from Candy Land as taking undesirable cards from the side decks (so that you actually have options) usually only immediately benefits your neighbor. Consider me not a fan.
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KongKing123
Posts: 577
Joined: 04 April 2020, 19:43

Re: The game is too random

Post by KongKing123 »

Agreed with the above posts. I would be hesitant to even call it a game really, it's more like a fancy-looking lottery. There are pure dice games with more player agency than this. They might have been trying to make a very simple game suitable for children, but I'm sure they would also appreciate actually getting to make some decisions.

I honestly don't understand how this got past playtesting. Its fundamental problems are readily apparent from only a couple of games. I appreciate the thought of a simplified 7 Wonders, but this isn't it.
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Tisaac
Posts: 2350
Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: The game is too random

Post by Tisaac »

KongKing123 wrote: 27 January 2022, 22:33 They might have been trying to make a very simple game suitable for children
That's exactly the point of this game. Make a version easy to understand for players unfamiliar with boardgames.
So pretty normal it's basically not the cup of tea of many players on BGA since they don't fit this description.
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Papa Boris
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 June 2021, 02:46

Re: The game is too random

Post by Papa Boris »

I respectfully disagree with the OP, but I'm grateful that they made this post because it inspired me to write the first comprehensive strategy guide for 7WA on Board Game Geek.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/280714 ... -40-player
T72on1
Posts: 674
Joined: 09 October 2019, 12:18

Re: The game is too random

Post by T72on1 »

Nice guide. Even from my limited experience with the game, I feel like you got it right on most parts. There's definitely way more ways to cope with the randomness of this game than the OP implies.
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Timmaddams
Posts: 16
Joined: 05 June 2020, 19:28

Re: The game is too random

Post by Timmaddams »

There is more strategic planning than suggested by the op, it's not snakes and ladders. But if you are comparing it to 7 Wonders (which also has random elements) or 7 Wonders Duel (also random elements) you are missing the point.

This is a light game, for a family to play with children, or as a gateway game.

There are plenty of games aimed at this demographic where the best player can't win all the time, and this is deliberately done. The best player will win more often but not all the time. This way children or players less into meta gaming feel they are still in the game and can win.
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