Arena swap

[kytbell]

Please get rid of that weird "swap rule" thing that's on Arena. I've played Connect Four since I was a kid and have never heard of it. All other games' Arena versions are the base game (as opposed to extensions or variances). It's not fair to Connect Four fans that our Arena should have some weird variance on there. Yuck.

[aesche]

The issue is that C4 is a solved game that the opener wins 100% if he knows how to play. With the swap rule, if both play perfect, the game ends in a draw, which is what it should be in a competitive game, instead of only depending on who is the lucky one that can start the game.

[kytbell]

Hey, if you know you're going to win based off of ONE move, you're a much better player than me. If this is so, then why does BGA even have the regular game to begin with? You think the hundreds of thousands of people who played Connect Four growing up and who play it the normal way today don't want to be competitive?

BGA is great at mirroring the in-person gaming experience online for those of us who can't always play with people in person. This swap thing is impossible in person. Unless you're also telling me that when you play the physical game, you stick your fingers in each and every one of those little Connect Four holes, working against gravity and plastic, to raise the coins up so you can pull them out and move them around again? Or when you were a kid did you just look at the other kid's first move and say, well, you're going to lose (or I'm going to win) so I'm taking my game and going home? I doubt it. You dropped one coin, they dropped one coin, and you played.

Not to mention, as I stated in my original post, other games do not base Arena off of a variant. Period.

[ufm]

Don't want to play competitive, why try Arena mode then?
Swap thing is impossible in person? Plenty of board games use pie rule in real life.
Just turn the board, change the seat, or swap remaining components.

Base C4 is solved and solvers dominated Arena before swap introduction. First player advantage did not help.
Arena opening option will never be changed.
If you don't like it, play normal mode as you please. Period.

[kytbell]

Slow your roll, dude. Who are you - one single individual - to say this will “never” be changed? Wow.

[Jellby]

Who are you - one single individual - to say this will “never” be changed?

LOL. He/she's the current maintainer of the game, so I guess he/she has say

Nevertheless, "never" may be too strong... who knows what will happen in 50 years when another developer takes over.

[ufm]

Nevertheless, "never" may be too strong... who knows what will happen in 50 years when another developer takes over.

To attract solvers again? Nope. This change was a collective decision made after debates and adjustments.
Thus, this will never be changed unless BGA somehow tries to eliminate engine use from the whole site instead (but you know this is implausible).

[kytbell]

Who are you - one single individual - to say this will “never” be changed?

LOL. He/she's the current maintainer of the game, so I guess he/she has say

Nevertheless, "never" may be too strong... who knows what will happen in 50 years when another developer takes over.

Thanks for letting me know. Could you help me better understand what that means, thanks? Are you telling me that there's a single player out there for each game that is somehow empowered to make decisions for all players? Don't mean that snarkily, just trying to figure out how this impeccably rude person wound up in apparent charge, thanks.

Also, how did you know that, please? I tried to find the info on their profile but couldn't. Are the maintainers for each game listed somewhere that I've missed, thanks?

[ufm]

Thanks for letting me know. Could you help me better understand what that means, thanks? Are you telling me that there's a single player out there for each game that is somehow empowered to make decisions for all players? Don't mean that snarkily, just trying to figure out how this impeccably rude person wound up in apparent charge, thanks.

I took charge because nobody jumped in to fix bugs and other problems in the original implementation.
You didn't do any background research on this topic and threw pejoratives like 'weird', 'not fair', 'impossible', 'Yuck' on someone else's work, just because you didn't like it. And now say I'm rude.

What goes around, comes around.

[Jellby]

Are you telling me that there's a single player out there for each game that is somehow empowered to make decisions for all players?

Well, there is a single (or maybe a few) person who develops and does the programming associated with each game. Someone has to add/remove options, fix bugs, etc. If the person in charge of a game does not want to add an option (or if BGA policy is against it), then it won't happen... until at least something/someone changes.

Also, how did you know that, please? I tried to find the info on their profile but couldn't. Are the maintainers for each game listed somewhere that I've missed, thanks?

Just a handful of topics down in the Connect Four forum page: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 46&t=22735