CHEATER found & Mods couldn't care less

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silentProtest
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

CHEATER found & Mods couldn't care less

Post by silentProtest »

howdy, new here - I play a lot of 7 wonders and 7 wonders duel in real life and found this site recently; I thought it might be fun to analyze the games of the top 10 players here (so maybe I can copy stuff, or maybe there are dominant strategies I'm unaware of etc.).
and some games seem reaaallllyy weird to me:
*

This are the last 5 games of the player *. It seems very much to me that this games are faked/constructed so * wins; and gets elo??? Nevertheless maybe I'm not experienced enough, can some experts look into the games?
*, *', presumably, fake opponent, does not take critical green cards in age 3, does not use opportunities to win with military, gives insane advantages in age 1, sometimes, and other weird stuff, despite being a top player himself.

I am not sure if this should be reported, or if there is in fact something to report - could you guys look into it please??


*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.

silentProtest Edit: see last post(16) here for more information (after getting censored/redacted :P )
Last edited by silentProtest on 10 August 2022, 10:37, edited 2 times in total.
silentProtest
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by silentProtest »

...thought about it some more, and made a list with more details - check it out. Would be nice to know it is not just my imagination.

highlights in detail:
*
about move 35-39 * wouldnt destroy the one green card that * needs to get a green win, as were all the wins before in these 5 games - extra "weird" in move 37!
(2 stones might be an argument but law being in the middle its almost a sure loss if Lab is not trashed, which most , especilly at that level, should see, right???)


*
move 13: * gives away 2 yellow cards!
move 51: * trashes a green card for * to revive instead of playing aretmis for example
!!! move 61: * sees the last chance for * to make a science win, and lets the card be, for * to build - it couldn't be more clearer at that point - fun thing is * would probably win anyway with points, but they seem to be after quick games, for, presumably, quick transfer of elo.


*
21: * trashes vital green card he used a extra turn wonder for to get, for * to revive it later for a science win -dejavu.
(40 or so: did not open up yellow cards that * dream couldnt buy yet - just little details)
(50 uses 2 shields- so * begins next age, only through this action - which is fatal against science wins)
-> nothing special/big here it seems besides 21, which was pretty soon in the game, but * recognized the danger and gave it away to * nevertheless


*
19: again trashing green card against marsoleum and opponent clearly trying a science win, but not as grosesly bad as in the game above, since * has "only" 2 and not 3 greens, with law in the middle on both occasions
21: * gifts a yellow card, and gets worse position, for almost no reason!
33: * buys a yellow card, that * cant buy and polo does not really need, instead of trashing clearly critical green card!
41: * builds a wonder he does not need on that point, instead of pushing for a military win he is quite close to
43-49 * does not build statue of zeus which would make the game for * dream REALLY hard
!!!54: does not use his extra turn wonder which is SUPER obvious and critical to win or at least not lose through science
!!!60: * lets * dream win, just because -.-
--> this is insane and clearly foulplay and a fake game :(


*
10: * trashes a red card instead a green, which * is going for again, clearly!
22: leaves clay for * to build even if he pretended to put pressure on economy, in every other case; for the cost of yellow cards even
!!24: AGAIN leaves wood that * needs, with NO upsides, instead trashing another red card!
28: leaves critical yellow card for * to build!
42 or so: opens up two hidden cards even he did not need to, risking, or wanting, for * getting theology!
-> third clearest game that * wants to let * win


so the three most note worthy games are:
*
*
*

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.
silentProtest
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by silentProtest »

noone cares ?? O.o
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Le007n
Posts: 64
Joined: 30 March 2020, 22:47

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by Le007n »

I think I can definitely agree with you that something is a miss here or these are not 500+ players

The fact * has a 0.23 science win rate which is higher than * would indicate he knows the value of the tokens. As you note, he overlooks them on multiple occasions and allows them to be taken.

Either he doesn't learn, or just likes to lose the same way (on purpose?!) If this was a 500 player you would be stopping this at all costs, especially with the law token in play

Unfortunately I've seen a few instances of this in the top 10 when I used to play this game a lot and analyse games. I won't throw any new names into the pot but I've seen instances of 600+ players with Pantheon expansion putting Ra in their opponents cheapest slot. We can all misclick or make an interesting move on occasion, but if that's not an obvious throw I don't know what is :)

You can report it by clicking on the player then going through the report procedure but I don't know if it will do anything...

Unless the mod has a strong understanding of the game it would be hard to see them taking any action.

Just be happy if you get drawn against either of these players. Should be easy elo for you!

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.
silentProtest
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by silentProtest »

Le007n wrote: 02 April 2022, 23:33 Just be happy if you get drawn against either of these players. Should be easy elo for you!
* does not play, besides the ranking buffing games, it seems :(
Le007n wrote: 02 April 2022, 23:33 You can report it by clicking on the player then going through the report procedure but I don't know if it will do anything...

Unless the mod has a strong understanding of the game it would be hard to see them taking any action.
I think I have no choice than reporting him, BUT first I want to write him and ask directly (and ask * too).
Also it is, just in case, better to wait for more input HERE, from more top players, so it is, even for someone not getting the game, beyond any reason of a doubt boosting elo (as I presume this was the end goal).

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.
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tkok
Posts: 10
Joined: 14 September 2013, 15:12

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by tkok »

silentProtest wrote: 03 April 2022, 00:15 I think I have no choice than reporting him, BUT first I want to write him and ask directly (and ask * too).
I think you should report it to BGA mods and let them handle it as it should be handled. I wouldn't advice you to get involved into that, there's nothing for you to gain in it I think.

If your statements are thruthful this should be an easy case to be moderated by abusing the ELO system.
silentProtest
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by silentProtest »

tkok wrote: 03 April 2022, 21:00
silentProtest wrote: 03 April 2022, 00:15 I think I have no choice than reporting him, BUT first I want to write him and ask directly (and ask * too).
I think you should report it to BGA mods and let them handle it as it should be handled. I wouldn't advice you to get involved into that, there's nothing for you to gain in it I think.
the thing to gain/lose is, if I report and there are no consequences, it might encourage people to do that more often - so I want to be sure its worth reporting!
silentProtest
Posts: 170
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by silentProtest »

also, what to choose ?? since nothing fits, without extra assumptions:

* helps another player to win the game by playing as a team -> "The best way to combat Kingmaking is to give the Kingmaker player a red thumb (public red thumbs). There is no use filling in a report here: please give a red thumb to the one who made the kingmaking moves."


* is using multiple accounts to boost ELO -> The accounts play against each other to cheat the ranking system -> here I can make a report but I have no idea if this is a multiple account. still it goes against the spirit of the rules, I think.
* is using multiple accounts to boost ELO -> Something else -> "It is acceptable to own several accounts on BGA, as long as it is reasonable and does not violate another rule of the website."

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.
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Le007n
Posts: 64
Joined: 30 March 2020, 22:47

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by Le007n »

I would go with option two

It doesn't matter if the two accounts are owned by the same person and they are dual screening, or if they are worlds away co-ordinating, the results are the same.

It would be good if the mods gave the reporting player feedback in these cases, one way or another. At least then they'd know it has been looked at and the outcome / reason for any decision. I don't think that occurs unless anyone can confirm otherwise?
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tkok
Posts: 10
Joined: 14 September 2013, 15:12

Re: CHEATER found, while analyzing games

Post by tkok »

silentProtest wrote: 04 April 2022, 00:12 the thing to gain/lose is, if I report and there are no consequences, it might encourage people to do that more often - so I want to be sure its worth reporting!
No one will know if you reported or not and if it lead to a ban or not, unless you tell someone. So it's hard for me to see how it would encourage anyone. I think I could report players based on this forum discussion and see what happens. I will wait for awhile, as you are the original author if you want to do it.

If nothing happens, then we need to gather more evidence that this is indeed something that is against the rules of BGA.
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