How are conceded games counted in the stats?

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Arrigo II
Posts: 2
Joined: 26 March 2020, 16:48

How are conceded games counted in the stats?

Post by Arrigo II »

One thing I like in this game is that different players really have different styles, even at the top level. This is reflected by the stats, which show the share of civilian/science/military victory (and political if you play with Agora). It is impressive to see how these stats vary among players.

However, this is a game where conceded games are not rare: sometimes the outcome is clear before the end, and some players prefer to concede if they foresee a sure loss. In my experience, this happens more often when a scientific or military win is about to happen, than a civilian one.

I was wondering how this kind of wins are counted in the stats. For some reason, after a conceded games it appears written that the game was won by the tie-breaker rule. As all tie-breaker victories are civilian, I have the impression that all conceded games might be counted by the website as civilian ones, which would skew the stats by a fair bit. Does anybody know if this guess is correct?

If that is the case, I think it would be fairer not to count those wins under any of the standard kind of wins, and maybe even add a new victory type as "conceded". I perfectly know it is a very minor problem, and I have no idea how much work it would be needed to fix it, but I'm still curios to see what other players think about it :P .
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Le007n
Posts: 55
Joined: 30 March 2020, 22:47

Re: How are conceded games counted in the stats?

Post by Le007n »

I too wondered this a long while back

If you look at the details of a conceded games, it does say the civilian tie breaker win condition but in the details of win type it says 'no' to civilian and all other types

Therefore I can only presume it doesn't count a conceded game in these stats so they are not diluted by civilian wins but other win types may also be under represented

That being said, games where a player is going for science / military and don't get the cards they want they may also conceded (since they are far behind on points) so they maybe balance out

Conceded games I think represent a small amount of games. The majority of players in my experience like to play through so you should still get a good feel for play styles from these stats

In terms of recording, I can't personally think of any programmatical way you could determine the win condition for a conceded game so this seems very unlikely to be done.

Often when a game is conceded there is one strong win type likely to occur. Im however, in other games a player may have two routes they can win depending what route they want to go so until the win occurs this is unknown
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Arrigo II
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Joined: 26 March 2020, 16:48

Re: How are conceded games counted in the stats?

Post by Arrigo II »

Thanks Le007n, this is the kind of answer I was looking for! I'm glad I'm not the only crazy one who was curious about this :P .
I agree with you that the system should not try to guess the type of victory if the game is conceded. So, if conceded games are excluded from the count, we are already close to the optimal solution.

As a side note, I would find this kind of stats much more readable if victory conditions were given as % of the wins of the player, and not of total games. Also, it would be nice to have the same stats for the lost games :D .
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Le007n
Posts: 55
Joined: 30 March 2020, 22:47

Re: How are conceded games counted in the stats?

Post by Le007n »

Its not crazy if you want to be good, you've got to know everything inside and out. At least that's what I tell myself ;)

The values are relative so you can very quickly see a players preferred style at a glance but I agree, percentages would be easier to view if looking across players

You could easily work this out based on the type win % / total win % available but I've never seen the need for that :)

I'm not sure 'lost by' would be that interesting. It doesn't feel like a game where good players lose the same way often and it would depend slightly on your opponents. I don't think it would tell you a players weakness or anything more than the what the overall average win % does if you looked at a number of the top players (see my previous post)

This to me is the main indicator which again is relative to the game being played and the tokens / wonders available but generally levels out over time too give an accurate reflection
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michaelHastriter
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Joined: 25 January 2016, 23:52

Re: How are conceded games counted in the stats?

Post by michaelHastriter »

I would love to see my own personal "lose by military" ratio. If I could check my opponent's before I start age 2 that would be good as well. :D
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