Rules mistakes? "Immediately"

[michaelHastriter]

Has anyone noticed any rules mistakes based on the flow of the game?

Ones I feel may be mistakes are when the rules says "immediately" When you receive 3 keys then then you immediately receive a location and cannot use that 3rd key Lord's ability... *The LandLord automatically gives you a pearl though before the 3 keys trigger.* If that Lord can use its ability then why not allow me to use the slaver or opportunist one time before I turn them into a location. Does anyone know if the commander's ability immediately triggers before the 3rd key rule triggers? I haven't tried it cause I'm scared a 4pt Commander would be useless.

Speaking of the Commander, "Your opponents can no longer hold more than 6 allies. They "Immediately" discard any extras" How come when my opponent has the Commander, if it is my turn, I am able to use the Slaver to exchange my 7th ally for 2 pearls rather than needing to discard it for nothing? Does the exchange count as a "discard".

Love the implementation, and can live with these issues. Glad it is on BGA! Maybe I don't understand the rules myself.

[sorryimlikethis]

Has anyone noticed any rules mistakes based on the flow of the game?

Ones I feel may be mistakes are when the rules says "immediately" When you receive 3 keys then then you immediately receive a location and cannot use that 3rd key Lord's ability... *The LandLord automatically gives you a pearl though before the 3 keys trigger.* If that Lord can use its ability then why not allow me to use the slaver or opportunist one time before I turn them into a location. Does anyone know if the commander's ability immediately triggers before the 3rd key rule triggers? I haven't tried it cause I'm scared a 4pt Commander would be useless.

Speaking of the Commander, "Your opponents can no longer hold more than 6 allies. They "Immediately" discard any extras" How come when my opponent has the Commander, if it is my turn, I am able to use the Slaver to exchange my 7th ally for 2 pearls rather than needing to discard it for nothing? Does the exchange count as a "discard".

Love the implementation, and can live with these issues. Glad it is on BGA! Maybe I don't understand the rules myself.

I can confirm The Commander does trigger if you buy him as your 3rd key. Based on that precedent others such as Slaver, Opportunist, Oracle should also be able to trigger as a 3rd key. Have you tested them out to see if that's the case? Landlord is a bit different as the text on him says (something like) "Gain a pearl immediately, and then at the start of each turn gain a pearl".

[Ez0ah]

When you recruit a lord with an instant power (marked by a down arrow), you always resolve that power, regardless of how many keys you have. In that case, you can consider that the lord power and gathering the key are simultaneous. If the lord has a semi-permanent power, you are not able to use that power if they bring you your third key.
As for the Commander, their power is detailed at the end of the rulebook and is a bit more complex than what’s written on the card. When it is bought, the opponents immediately need to discard down. Then, as long as its power is still active, the opponents need to discard at the end of their turn if they are over the limit. In your case, consuming a card with the slaver is done during your turn, which helps you stay under the hand limit.
Have fun in your games

[michaelHastriter]

If the lord has a semi-permanent power, you are not able to use that power if they bring you your third key.

In BGA's implementation I am able to use the landlord's ability which contradicts this

I grabbed some excerpts from the rulebook

"Control Locations (Mandatory): When you gain a third Key, you 3 must take control of a Location."

"Lord Powers: Some Lords have a “semi-permanent” Power
that remains in effect until that Lord is used
to control a Location. "

"Note: A player who controls a Lord decides at which point during
their turn the Lord’s semi-permanent Power is applied."

This would lead me to believe that I should be able to use the slaver, opportunist, or Oracle once before the third key rule would trigger

[michaelHastriter]

I can confirm The Commander does trigger if you buy him as your 3rd key. Based on that precedent others such as Slaver, Opportunist, Oracle should also be able to trigger as a 3rd key. Have you tested them out to see if that's the case? Landlord is a bit different as the text on him says (something like) "Gain a pearl immediately, and then at the start of each turn gain a pearl".

Just tested this with the Oracle at table #288088002

Can confirm, it did not allow me to use the Oracle power.

Oracle: No
Landlord: Yes
Commander: Yes
Opportunist: ?
Slaver: ? (I'm 90% sure this is a No)

They should all be Yes or all be No

[Le007n]

Opportunist is a 'No', I had that one comes up in a game today

I presume you mean the landlord and not the landowner as the other lord mentioned with an effect

[michaelHastriter]

yes landlord... edited

[wentley]

So what was the final conclusion? Which of the Lord's powers trigger on BGA, and which ought to a trigger? Are these the same?

I can say with confidence that the designer himself has confirmed (on Boardgamegeek) that immediate powers of Lords DO trigger in the event of one being recruited with a third key (the Master of Magic is definitely an exception however). So this would imply powers only trigger if they logically can do. (The Master of Magic cannot reduce the cost of his own affiliated ally, as its already part of his cost).

I've personally not noticed them trigger on BGA, and, in fact, was not aware of this rule application until recently.

[michaelHastriter]

So what was the final conclusion? Which of the Lord's powers trigger on BGA, and which ought to a trigger? Are these the same?

I can say with confidence that the designer himself has confirmed (on Boardgamegeek) that immediate powers of Lords DO trigger in the event of one being recruited with a third key (the Master of Magic is definitely an exception however). So this would imply powers only trigger if they logically can do. (The Master of Magic cannot reduce the cost of his own affiliated ally, as its already part of his cost).

I've personally not noticed them trigger on BGA, and, in fact, was not aware of this rule application until recently.

Well if Bruno Cathala said it then it is gospel and we gotta have the cards I listed such as the opportunist and the Oracle be able to play their powers before a 3rd key is resolved, even if they are that 3rd key.

I wish there was more love for this game. It is liked well enough but if people really craved it like they do Wingspan, Ticket to Ride, and Azul then we'd be having these rules fixed ASAP and a greater push for the two amazing expansions for Abyss.

[Le007n]

I haven't seen a ticket for this in the bugs area (I could have missed it), but if there isn't one of suggest putting a ticket in

That way, if an expansion does get picked up as we are hoping, there's a chance the Dev might look back through the reports to tidy up some of the open issues at the same time