Points after game

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Frosti_Austi
Posts: 10
Joined: 20 April 2020, 01:01

Points after game

Post by Frosti_Austi »

I was renegade and was last man standing along with Sheriff. I personally killed deputy who was the first victim of the game. I also got an outlaw killed through through an indian/gatling gun. Another outlaw dueled me and lost and died. So it was me and the sheriff left. The sheriff killed met. Yet I lost the most points out of all players, even more than the outlaws I killed. And the deputy earned points even though he was the first to die.

I think the point award structure needs to be modified. Like, if you're the first to die you should lose points. And if you're the renegade and last man standing along with the sheriff but he kills you, you should at least break even on points (i.e. get 0).

thoughts?
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voriki
Posts: 773
Joined: 28 August 2020, 12:27

Re: Points after game

Post by voriki »

That's not how the BGA infrastructure works.
education
Posts: 2
Joined: 15 September 2022, 18:27

Re: Points after game

Post by education »

Maybe we could keep a different kind of score as well?

There is a tournament scoring system:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=ca

Here is another scoring system
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VEXmpG ... NkeIj/view
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ChiefPointThief
Posts: 436
Joined: 14 August 2020, 22:27

Re: Points after game

Post by ChiefPointThief »

Because this is a team game if your team wins you should still be rewarded no matter what position you die in. I do agree with you about the renegade though. The renegade is by far the hardest role to win with (win rate probably under 10%) and it should be granted way more elo for wins and less for losing.
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please choose a name
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 March 2021, 23:45

Re: Points after game

Post by please choose a name »

What if we give rene points for winning based on probilities of sheriff with vice winning plus probabilities of the outlaws winning.
In a full 7 player game 20% of the time the 3 outlaws win, 75% sheriff with deputies win, 5% renegade wins.
ExaltedAngel
Posts: 145
Joined: 16 January 2021, 22:15

Re: Points after game

Post by ExaltedAngel »

Apart from how the BGA infrastructure works, which could be modified if needed, the Elo rating, as it is, is not suitable for asymmetrical games, and while the system is decades old and guaranteed to be properly working, caution must be used when modifying it on purpose because it might result in poor balance. This said, since the system works and assigns points based on win probability, multiplying it for a coefficient of standard win probability for the faction you are playing in should work, the hard part is correctly estimate that probability for it to be realistic.

Another interesting point is to evaluate the actual impact of this issue. Since the system is the same for everyone, in the long-term, this basically don't create any error in the rating, it might be frustrating because starting a game and getting renegade automatically means you are having an Elo expected value negative (at the opposite when rolling sheriff you gain more rating in average than you should), but this is the same for every player it shouldn't matter much regarding the correctness of the ratings.

However, the biggest problem here is that BGA staff don't seem to care much about how the Elo rating is implemented in its games, just have a look at how messed up are ratings for cooperative games because of the abandon feature...

So the final answer is:
yes, the rating assignment on the single game is flawed
no, the resulting Elo ratings are fine in the long-term
yes, it could probably be fixed even tho it's complicated
no, I doubt they will
tabaluga123
Posts: 3
Joined: 11 February 2023, 09:44

Re: Points after game

Post by tabaluga123 »

Ranking system is really bad. You get lots of players on the losing site disconnecting and his mates get even points afterwards. And they wont lose anything if their rank is too low, you wont gain anything if your rank is too high. Instead game should be continued , winners get the points, losers wont lose any points and disconnected player gets punishment for future games.
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hfyr
Posts: 8
Joined: 05 April 2015, 21:48

Re: Points after game

Post by hfyr »

tabaluga123 wrote: 05 April 2023, 23:42 Ranking system is really bad. You get lots of players on the losing site disconnecting and his mates get even points afterwards. And they wont lose anything if their rank is too low, you wont gain anything if your rank is too high. Instead game should be continued , winners get the points, losers wont lose any points and disconnected player gets punishment for future games.
Yes, I agree with you!!
And Renegade definitely deserves gaining higher points for winning/standing with sheriff, and losing fewer points when lose.
No one loves to play a role destined to lose.
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