balance issues another jump drive

[mrbass]

jump drive was fun for a few days and then what was the point...just complete luck of the draw once you figure out the combos. To rebalance that game is impossible so don't play it anymore. https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26284

Sea Salt & Paper has llike Sushi Go collecting points but you basically got 4 choices (2 discard pile or 2 from drawn). Most 2p games only go to around 30 cards out of the 60 before game round ends. So if you get 2/penguin (4pts), and 2 penguins (3pts) the round is over just in 3 cards. Seen it happen before. Also I've won twice with 4 mermaids. So I like it but doubt there is any replability once you've explored the combos. Do two open shark attacks and your opponent can't get momentum going.

I've only tried a few 3p games and that has bash the leader shark attacks. Hidden scoring like in Small World might be a solution to that.

Any ideas how to rebalance this game to make it have longterm playability?
I think Jump Drive and Sea Salt & Paper both suffer by not having round 1 and round 2 cards. Like Blood Rage has 3 ages of cards so Age 1 cards aren't overpowered. If both these games had most games where almost the entire deck was plundered through then I think it'd be much better. Anyway I appreciate the game mechanics and the artwork except for that one fish that looks like a shark.

[Ez0ah]

Well, i couldn't disagree more (not on Jump Drive, played it, no interest in coming back). I think this game has small interesting decisions to make, and I've seen players win with so many different combos. I think the replayability is very solid for a game that simple.

I think you overestimate the impact of shark/swimmer. Yes, in a 2p game, it can completely turn the tides, but it's also a huge gamble as these pairs are not that common in the deck, you could snatch a card that's completely useless to you and the opponent. And it's just for one round.

At the end of the day, i don't get the need to rebalance games like these ones. They clearly aren't meant to be played in a world competition, although this one probably could. The designer has way more experience than any of us.

[Le007n]

I would also agree with Ez0ah.

SS&P is not as complex and deep as many games but it has lots of nice little decisions and I've been very impressed by it so far

There are many ways to win a round and many combos.
The bigger scoring combo cards are more rare and a risk but the more you play the more colours also become a strong factor

If you go for octopuses ever round you opponent will start denying you these so you have to mix up your strategy and not give away what you are collecting

The round end can occur in 3 or 4 cards as you say, and you get a nice little lead. Generally it seems to be about 10 draws but it can be longer as one, or both players build larger scores and gamble on when to end the round

This to me is very similarly to other card games like gin rummy which has the same feel with a risk and rewards

The round duration will then often depends on the players and you can use this to you advantage. Player who call as soon as they get 7pts can be least into failing their bet to give you a better score for the round and the next start

Since both players have access to the same cards and the round start alternates it feels very balanced to me

If it was just one round, this balance obviously wouldn't be the case!

I wouldn't say this about all Bombyx games and balance (I'm looking at you Glow and Garden Nation to some degree) but they have some very solid games. Check out Conspiracy, Abyss and Noah as some other examples

The skill therefore is making the most of your hand each round and getting the larger points gap when you are ahead for one. You will likely be behind other rounds so minimising this gap is key

Since you've had two mermaid wins in 42 or so games you seem like the cards are kind to you, this is definitely higher than average but may be an indication of your play style. You like to risk it to collect the 4 mermaid's when the possibility is there, risking a shark attack rather than taking the sure points!

Give it a few more goes and you might find something more inside

[mrbass]

I think to tie should be enough to stop the bet especially since the odds are against you trying to beat the score as is. Also once your behind by 10 or more best to just concede so next game can start and hope you get a lucky draw of combos.

[thoun]

I think to tie should be enough to stop the bet especially since the odds are against you trying to beat the score as is. Also once your behind by 10 or more best to just concede so next game can start and hope you get a lucky draw of combos.

I'm not sure to understand your first sentence, in case of tie, the caller is already winner.
For the second one, I've been losing 4-22 and made my way up to win the game, it's not impossible

[Le007n]

If I understand it right, MrBass is trying to say that if I call last chance on 7pts and you also get 7pts, I lose the bet (not win as current)

This would make it a lot more risky and I'm sure it is something the designers played with to get it right. Having to get ahead makes sense to me with the alternating start based on this call, win or lose the outcome

Agree with you on the gap, come backs happen quite often with a few good round. If your opponent gets to high 30s in a two player game and you are still in the 20s you need to hope for a shoal of mermaid's I agree, but a gap at the begining is more than winnable

[mrbass]

yea that's what I'm saying...as Le007n says. I really like the mechanics, artwork and implementation and it is addicting for sure. Having said that this is one of those games even if you win it leaves a sour taste in your mouth. It's quite a nasty game. So another idea (none of this will happen obviously just like saying if I could beta test this in France) would be say for 2p with the following randomly removed 5x crab, 4x boat, 3x fish, 2x shark, 2x swimmer, 2x shell, 1x octopus. If math is right that's 19 less for a total of 39 cards. Well 2p both can go for octopus nor shell...exactly that's the point. This gives a much better sense of what's gonna come out and reduce the luck factor a tad and make it just a tad more strategic. Kinda like 6 Nimmt or No Thanks does by taking out certain amount of cards based on # of players.

Now for 3p remove the following 3x crab, 2x boat, 1x fish, 1x shark, 1x swimmer, 1x shell, 0x octopus ...that leaves 49 cards. Anyone got the real game and can try this out?

Cards list.....
58 cards total
9 x Crab
8 x Boat
7 x Fish
5 x Shark + 5 x Swimmer
4 x Mermaid
6 x Shell
5 x Octopus
3 x Penguin
2 x Sailor (anchor icon)
1 x Lighthouse
1 x Shoal of fish
1 x Penguin Colony
1 x Captain

[Ez0ah]

I don’t think you are supposed to remove cards in No Thanks or 6 nimnt, unless you are talking about the strategic variant.

I still disagree with the need for balance tweaks. For the sake of thethought experiment, how would the changes you propose improve the game?

[mrbass]

according to my experience...you have about a 10 to 15% chance if you are behind after two rounds. Best to concede and save yourself the time...go on to the next game. Gentleman's honor.

[Jellby]

according to my experience...you have about a 10 to 15% chance if you are behind after two rounds. Best to concede and save yourself the time...go on to the next game. Gentleman's honor.

If you concede, you go from 10-15% to 0%