My tier lists of 7 wonders duel

[Yalacarteresto]

Hi everyone,
I recently joined the top 10 in 7 wonders duel, and thought I could share what I've learned in the forum to help the new players understand the game better.

So here are the tier lists I made of all the wonders, pantheon gods, science tokens, politic tokens and plot cards.

Some important notes :
- I only play with all the extensions, and these tier lists only apply in this meta
- I hate taking risks and prefer a low risk/medium reward option over a high risk/high reward option
- I think science is weak, (I still sometimes lose to science, but more often than not science is too risky and expensive in age 1)
- I believe politics is slightly too strong in the meta
- I value resources a lot
- The ranking is made taking into account on how useful they are on average

Wonders:


Gods:


Science:


Politics:


Plot:



If you agree or disagree on some takes, feel free to share your thoughts

[michaelHastriter]

Congrats on making top 10! Most I've ever managed was top 20.

I agree with most everything on here but had some questions on a wonder and a progress token.

You and the current top player have your highest win percentage on political supremacy which requires coins. (.33 and .25)

You each also have higher than average military win percentages which definitely leans into needing coins with age 3 Pretorium and Mars. (.13 and .19 with the avg player being .09)

If you agree and believe coins are important to your strategy then why rate Agriculture higher than Urbanism in the progress tokens? Unless we are very close in points and I feel I haven't fallen too far behind in points, I almost always take Urbanism because the potential for more coins is so versatile for different victories and most games are not won by within 4pts. (infact for top 10 players, most games seem to end before points even matter.) I count Urbanism, Economy, Law, Corruption, Strategy, and Theology as the "power 6 progress tokens" with the rest including Agriculture considerably less valuable in most circumstances.

Why is Piraeus higher than Divine Theater and Hanging Gardens? I used to love Piraeus, rating it as my #1 base game Wonder and enjoyed the freedom to not fear Circus Maximus and not feel the rush to grab customs house in ages 2 but now my strategy has shifted to just save up 4 coins for the customs house or grab gray cards if my opponent doesn't have Circus Maximus.

I guess I'd rather have control over divine theater more because I can pull out Ra, or Hades or a progress token with Enki with the option to pivot to science if that is where the game is headed. (I do value the snake Goddess [Nisaba] higher than the Law Goddess [Ishtar] but that is a minor difference we have as well)

You say you value resources a lot. Does this mean straight Gray and Browns or do you value Yellow higher than those 2 colors?

Would you want to do a Tier list for the age 1, 2, and 3 cards ? I can send you my link to those tier lists if you haven't found them already.

[Yalacarteresto]

Hi Michael
Thank you for your reply (and sorry for my late reply)

Regarding your questions :
1) Why rate Agriculture higher than Urbanism in the progress tokens?

I believe that science is quite weak in the meta and people mostly get access to the tokens either if they hard commit to science (and when they do they usually are after better tokens like strategy, theology or law that made them go for science in the first place) or if they get them in age 3 when money isn't as much of an issue with all the yellow cards. Also, if people get progress tokens in age 3 they mostly get it in the second half of age 3 when there aren't a lot of cards left for Urbanism to be very impactful. In that context Agriculture is slightly better since it provides more victory points. But I do agree that Urbanism is a better token when gotten in age 2.

2) Why is Piraeus higher than Divine Theater and Hanging Gardens?
- I love Piraeus mostly for how cheap it is to build and how much money it makes you save down the line. It is maybe the best extra turn wonder to play in the middle of age 1 when you're the first player and have another extra turn wonder (and also because it negates circus maximus).
- Hanging gardens is borderline S tier. I just find that most of the time, I pay 2 or 3 coins to build it, so I only get a 3 or 4-coin bonus from it, which is fine for a few turns but it isn't as liberating as Artemis.
- I believe that Divine Theater is incredible because it is super flexible but really held back by how expensive it is. And also, I never go for Enki with it because of how risky it is to get mediocre tokens.

3) You say you value resources a lot. Does this mean straight Gray and Browns or do you value Yellow higher than those 2 colors?

In age 1 I go for the 2 grey cards first (unless there are some broken political tokens I need to get or counter rapidly)
after I get my 1st yellow card yes, I tend to go for brown cards over yellow cards.
I believe that 2 yellow cards (if possible a resource one and the + 4 coin one) is the sweetspot people need to aim for in age 1, more is unnecessary and too costly

I hope that helps you understand my tier lists
cheers !

[michaelHastriter]

1) Why rate Agriculture higher than Urbanism in the progress tokens?

I see what you mean. both are good in age 2, Urbanism has the potential to be very good in age 2. I wonder if you've ever done an Urbanism age 1. I haven't but if in age 1 I get wood reserve and then quickly grab Great Library and it gave me the choice of Urbanism or Theology, I might just pick Urbanism depending on the setup. I do agree In age 3 Agriculture is better 100% better because Urbanism would be very weak at that point.

2) Why is Piraeus higher than Divine Theater and Hanging Gardens?

Good point about canceling Circus Maximus. I'll probably grab Piraeus over Hanging Gardens if I see that. That early extra turn scares me though cause I'd rather save my extra turns to age 3 when everything counts.

You said "I believe that Divine Theater is incredible because it is super flexible but really held back by how expensive it is." Yeah I can see that but ai'd rather grab it to stop a mil, science, political victory because that Wonder can really jump forward in any of those... plus I don't want to get RA'd.


3) You say you value resources a lot. Does this mean straight Gray and Browns or do you value Yellow higher than those 2 colors?

Your valueing of the age 1 resource cards surprised me the most, but I guess top players are going to have some tricks we can all learn from but I just have to know if you really value them like this: Gray > Yellow

You said science is weak yet your ideal setup would be

priority 1: 2 Gray
priority 2: 1 Yellow
priority 3: The rest of the Browns and 1 more Yellow.

So surprised by this because science favors those gray resources so in my mind the only reason to grab early gray would be to go science. (WONDERS maybe? No Way... wait till later for wonders imo)
Also Circus Maximus and Baal threaten the grays
Also there are 2 cards in age 2 that can supplement those grays a lot more effectively than the brown resource yellows. This will just mean Wonders other than Piraeus would be harder to play until something like the customs house is grabbed.
Last thing about making Priority 1 two Grays in age 1, If you just wait a little till age 2, those grays will be free vs 1 coin in age 1. I just got to know, are you really going to pass up a wood reserve in favor of a gray card in the first turn? If you could only pick 2 yellow cards and 2 browns *or* 2 gray cards and 2 browns would you really pick the grays and lose out on the discard income?

[Yalacarteresto]

"Good point about canceling Circus Maximus. I'll probably grab Piraeus over Hanging Gardens if I see that. That early extra turn scares me though cause I'd rather save my extra turns to age 3 when everything counts."

There is an interesting balance between having a strong start that snowballs and finishing strong and there are too many factors that need to be taken into account.

I believe that having a strong start and trying to be the first player in age 2 is generaly more important than keeping all our extra turn wonders. Mostly because of RA and Neptune. However if the opponent has 2 or more extra turn wonders in stock, you usualy can't afford to have none because a KO is likely.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if your start is very good, the opponent will probably have to sacrifice their extra turn cards to keep you from getting the cards you need rather than to pursue their own goals.

Also, I'd rather use an extra turn wonder in age 1 if I can see that my next 3 or 4 turns are going to be me discarding and good for my opponent



"You said science is weak yet your ideal setup would be

priority 1: 2 Gray
priority 2: 1 Yellow
priority 3: The rest of the Browns and 1 more Yellow."

Pretty much yes but blue in age one is also a priority.
Sometimes even priority one depending on the situation.
Having 2 blue cards advantage in early age one is too good, especially if the political tokens are strong.
So if you have another blue card already or if the opponent has one already and white political cards are coming your way, go for the blue cards

Gray resources are incredibly valueable in age one. Because it significantly increases or decreases the price of the extra turn wonders that will be played to be the first player to play in age 2 and also because it is one less thing to worry about in age two when there are so many crucial cards and gods to take.
I'd pay one coin to get the gray in age 1 over getting it for free in age 2 any day.


If you could only pick 2 yellow cards and 2 browns *or* 2 gray cards and 2 browns would you really pick the grays and lose out on the discard income?
In early age 1 probably not, late age 1 probably, depending on the board.