frankenStains Tierlists v.42 final final FINAL reworked, edited .... - or starting tips for newbies and semi-pros ;)

[frankenStain]

hey all, I felt like making some tier lists about 7wd both expansions (last year...), and thought it might also be useful for people starting to play with expansions (having some rule of thumb in the beginning can be helpful, even if some things might be better/game winning in specific situations, despite being worse tier).
-- Also since I wrote this, someone made the same - so here is my very thoughtthrough take

Some stuff concerning all the lists, how to interpret them and how they were generated:
- the ranking is made of 2 things. 1. how likely and extremely it is game changing 2. how consistent it can give you advantages/better win chances (stole the idea from woolie's Risk of Rain 2 ranking - because it's awesome!) [and yeah both things are combinations of things technically, but they made most sense as this 2 units to me - I also can explain futher, but the 2nd point is prob best explained by woolie {https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1zbWWkmjIM}; the 1st is like a modificator for especially killer things]
- (since I chose a-d tiering I got stuck very soon trying to differentiate, sorry for that) there are whole steps [S++ to S+ to S to A to B to C to D to D-] and half-steps [A to A-B to B]
- E means it's useless
- F means that it is useless in most cases and even harmful (compared to the cost)
- the order within a tier is NOT relevant (they are close enough, so it wouldn't matter, or at least I am not good enough to say for sure which is clearly better)
(- the colors between the lists are inconsistent, because the tiering isn't comparable between lists - S++ for tokens has no connection to S++ for gods)

other notes:
feel free to discuss; but since the first tier list I posted hadn't much of it, I have low hopes.
the tier lists were periodically reworked and rethunk (and discussed with top tier players I know from rl) in the last 11-14 months, so, at least for me, this is quite definitive.

PS: hope it is of some use and have fun !
PPS: Big thanks to michaelHastriter and boardgamegeek.com for scans

Edit: Forgot to write this assumption: I assume top tier players, that are able to exploit the things near ideally, with the limited information one got at a time...

Gods:



Progress tokens:

[frankenStain]

Policy tokens Age 1-3 ( splitted it up in ages, because they vary very strongly between ages, sometimes )
Note to Age 1: there are 2 blackReplayTokens - the better tier is if you are first player (or got the timing of one [for example: if you are second player and an extra turn wonder was played already]), the lower tier is if you are second player (because you would give up the 2nd player's strongest advantages, if you use any extra turn effect [namely forcing opponent to open cards, and choosing the better one, and being only 1 extra turn wonder away to start in age 2])

Age1:



Age 2:



Age 3:

[frankenStain]

Conspiracy Cards:



Wonders:

[frankenStain]

--Reserved for a secret one, later--

[NIJL0]

While i agree with most of the tiers, especially the s++ tiers, in my opiniom, when it cones to the conspiracies at least, aside from the wondersteal esp political manover and treason, the rest are very circumstancial. For exampl i would rank the canel green higher.
True the most obvious ones usually give an advantage that tends to snowball, but when the game is evenly matchedi find that all the mid ranged conpiracies kindof blend together when it comes to usefulness.
One other thing that ive noticed in higher league games, more often then not games tend to be decided with points, mostly because decent players will tend to counter each other and suddenly all tge green tokens that give points can prove to be very useful.
One thing i do agree with, screw organized crime;)

[drsteelhammer]

Why is the law token god so bad, doesnt it enable the science victory similarly well as the progress token?

And the roman God who removes the tokens is S++ if your opponent is heavily military?

[frankenStain]

While i agree with most of the tiers, especially the s++ tiers, in my opiniom, when it cones to the conspiracies at least, aside from the wondersteal esp political manover and treason, the rest are very circumstancial. For exampl i would rank the canel green higher.
True the most obvious ones usually give an advantage that tends to snowball, but when the game is evenly matchedi find that all the mid ranged conpiracies kindof blend together when it comes to usefulness.
One other thing that ive noticed in higher league games, more often then not games tend to be decided with points, mostly because decent players will tend to counter each other and suddenly all tge green tokens that give points can prove to be very useful.
One thing i do agree with, screw organized crime;)

Yeah, I saw new up-and-comer that prefer point wins (like Hasan, Ankou, and silent seems to tend more and more to it; before that it was mainly ginger going for that), doesnt mean one has to give up all other pressure points. It is enough to get someone enough out of balance or them not caring, to finish it before points. And as you noticed the upper conspiracies are allrounder, that can also be critical, including A Tier. From B it gets circumstantial. The less dependable it gets, the lower it's ranked. The whole thing with B-Tier and down is that it can cripple the opponent in the right moment, leading to instant loss or at least getting behind by a LOT. With plan B always being get an edge on points (direct or through opponent lacking coins).
Some are pure counters (D-Tier and "exchange blue/green") and need some action from opponent to be effective enough to justify losing 2 turns; "exchange blue/green" can also bring up to 25 points in the very very best case, but has an expectancy of 7-13 points (which is why it got a bump).

And about the tokens: yes that is why the point ones are only half a tier apart of the 2 giving a financial edge and more options. (Economy also gives harder choices for opponent whether to build or trash, and a significant point edge in the end, if played right) --I think I wrote somewhere above that some things are better than others in specific situations, even if there is a Tier difference. (what I think I forgot is that I actually assume top tier players that are able to exploit the things near ideally, with the limited information one got at a time...)

[silentProtest]

Looked the lists a couple time over now and had some comments.
For the very most part I agree with them, but here some points of criticism:

The meta of the game seems to shift a little more to points. My idea behind this, is that being ahead on points is also a kind of a finisher, or critical move, as you call it. For now my estimate is that 25-40 points difference at end of age 2 or first card at age 3, is a finisher, IF you can make sure that you survive til the end.
Therefore my preference would be to bump the point tokens by that half a tier (and bump down the free senators, because most are bought until you get that token)

In gods I'd also bump up both point gods, to A. Futhermore in gods, I'd bump up Minerva to A, because it very much can and prob should be played offensivly, or put Minerva AND Mars to B, because being ahead on war brings itself a ton of problems switching ages.
And you are assuming top tier players, both of them I guess. So Zeus would be probably bumped down to B, because all see the risk of it in age 3 and might want to make sure to get rid of it, if ahead enough. Just is a question of timing and money. And yes it is a double edged sword, just as most gods, but I think this one, like enki, baal, neptune and ra, is even more so.

Looking forward to hear your ideas on my take

[michaelHastriter]

Glad I could help and looking forward to the secret Tier List. I hope it provides us with more knowledge on things to watch out for on BGA for the current meta of 7 Wonders Duel.

[frankenStain]

Looked the lists a couple time over now and had some comments.
For the very most part I agree with them, but here some points of criticism:

The meta of the game seems to shift a little more to points. My idea behind this, is that being ahead on points is also a kind of a finisher, or critical move, as you call it. For now my estimate is that 25-40 points difference at end of age 2 or first card at age 3, is a finisher, IF you can make sure that you survive til the end.
Therefore my preference would be to bump the point tokens by that half a tier (and bump down the free senators, because most are bought until you get that token)

In gods I'd also bump up both point gods, to A. Futhermore in gods, I'd bump up Minerva to A, because it very much can and prob should be played offensivly, or put Minerva AND Mars to B, because being ahead on war brings itself a ton of problems switching ages.
And you are assuming top tier players, both of them I guess. So Zeus would be probably bumped down to B, because all see the risk of it in age 3 and might want to make sure to get rid of it, if ahead enough. Just is a question of timing and money. And yes it is a double edged sword, just as most gods, but I think this one, like enki, baal, neptune and ra, is even more so.

Looking forward to hear your ideas on my take

Hey, thanks for the response.
Let me try to address this. tokens first. the reason the point ones are placed there, is that they are clearly not game winning in itself. not with enki/espionage or science doubles. there is a nasty combination with exchange blue green/blue card, but it is so rare and needs the opponent to missplay or to guess wrong, so that the point tokens even MIGHT be game winning, aka critical. But they are very consistent, especially at the end when you have to decide in age 3 if you try to go for science double. And based on the lack of criticality with points they are where they are. And based on the lack of hyper-consistency with urbanism and "free politician"(but with criticality, mostly in age 2), they are in S-A. Trying to rank them over all possible situations, weighed by likelyness of that situations - hence those tiers.

on the Gods there is actually a debate... mainly my thinking was biased on how good there are when used in a vacuum (divine theatre). Since there are a hinderance and a benefit if they are in the middle and could be exploited ideally, by both assumed optimal players, I'd have to rerank: Mars to B, Aphrodite to A and Zeus half a Tier down. - but under the assummtion that the players are playing mostly conservative- balancing, with an endgame on points (if need be, always letting other win conditions as open as possible).
My argument here, is that under top tier players, the most (win-)promising playstyle is balancing-offensive, taking most risks, if it is likelier to get an an edge over your opponent; fixing on an specific end, if you need to bet that the odds are on your side. That is also the dynamic that I love in full expansion 7wd. With that assumption the tier list mostly stays, besdes ranking Mars down one tier or Minerva up one Tier. (they are not equivalent, because in games where military is even relevant, there are a lot of easy outs vs minerva in the form of wonders or the army token (politic token - also you can get a deciding cube with mars..))