WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

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yrrepnadohr
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Joined: 01 November 2021, 13:27

WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by yrrepnadohr »

Hey there,
this is a strange rule here. You can not give up a game (match) early, in a Tournament (Turnier) even if you are totally chanceless!!

WHY can't I give up early a match in a Turnier, when I am totally chanceless?
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Meeplelowda
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by Meeplelowda »

yrrepnadohr wrote: 16 December 2022, 09:53 Hey there,
this is a strange rule here. You can not give up a game (match) early, in a Tournament (Turnier) even if you are totally chanceless!!

WHY can't I give up early a match in a Turnier, when I am totally chanceless?
You are talking about conceding. Not all games allow conceding. For those that do allow conceding, you have to reach a game progression of 50% (noted in the upper left if playing on a browser) before you can concede. This restriction was put in place to make it more burdensome for people to boost their ELO by having an alt account that loses repeatedly to their main account. What does this have to do with tournaments? Perhaps it is difficult to implement different rules for conceding in tournaments, so the same rules for regular games apply.
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Silene
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by Silene »

Meeplelowda wrote: 16 December 2022, 19:22Perhaps it is difficult to implement different rules for conceding in tournaments, so the same rules for regular games apply.
No they don't. The option to concede at any time is completely switched off for all tournament games.

The reason is probably, that for some tournament formats, it is important to have a regular final result with points, because those might be used as tie-breaker in a round-robin tournament format. For a knock-out it indeed makes no sense, but the same no-conceding-rule is in place anyway.
Hosting Allround-League: https://boardgamearena.com/group?id=7870115 --> a league where you have matches of random games vs. other players in your group - season 6 started in Nov. '23 with 128 participants.
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Meeplelowda
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by Meeplelowda »

Silene wrote: 16 December 2022, 19:40
Meeplelowda wrote: 16 December 2022, 19:22Perhaps it is difficult to implement different rules for conceding in tournaments, so the same rules for regular games apply.
No they don't. The option to concede at any time is completely switched off for all tournament games.

The reason is probably, that for some tournament formats, it is important to have a regular final result with points, because those might be used as tie-breaker in a round-robin tournament format. For a knock-out it indeed makes no sense, but the same no-conceding-rule is in place anyway.
I did not realize in-game points can be used as a tie breaker (as opposed to tournament points scored by opponents in Swiss, etc.).

Sorry, OP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Silene
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by Silene »

Meeplelowda wrote: 16 December 2022, 19:45 I did not realize in-game points can be used as a tie breaker (as opposed to tournament points scored by opponents in Swiss, etc.).
Only in Round Robin I think, because there opponnent's points is of no use as they are always the same when the points are the same.
Hosting Allround-League: https://boardgamearena.com/group?id=7870115 --> a league where you have matches of random games vs. other players in your group - season 6 started in Nov. '23 with 128 participants.
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yrrepnadohr
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by yrrepnadohr »

Silene wrote: 16 December 2022, 19:40
Meeplelowda wrote: 16 December 2022, 19:22Perhaps it is difficult to implement different rules for conceding in tournaments, so the same rules for regular games apply.
No they don't. The option to concede at any time is completely switched off for all tournament games.
Yes, that is true. And THIS is what I am talking about.
For me, this is a very strange rule, that I can not concede a game, when I am totally chanceless. For example: Backgammon or Mühle.
I do not see any reason why I have to play till the end, when I see that I will loose anyway ... strange rule, this is.
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megamau
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by megamau »

This has been brought up multiple time (search for "resignation", "conceding", etc.) but until now no support from the site.
In my view it is one of the major defects of this fantastic site.

You can vote for these two bug/suggestion links.

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=23423

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=22847
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SwHawk
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by SwHawk »

In a real life tournament, I believe that conceding a game is considered bad form, and is only allowed if you quit the tournament altogether. Also, as said, some tournament styles rely on in-game scoring as tie-breaker (akin to goal average in sports tournaments) so the game must be played in full...
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Meeplelowda
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by Meeplelowda »

SwHawk wrote: 26 December 2022, 19:30 In a real life tournament, I believe that conceding a game is considered bad form
You have not played tournament chess, correct? It's perfectly within the rules, but not resigning in chess when you are down a massive amount of material and have no counterplay is considered bad form.
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SwHawk
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Re: WHY can't I give up early a matche, when I am chanceless?

Post by SwHawk »

Meeplelowda wrote: 26 December 2022, 21:34 You have not played tournament chess, correct? It's perfectly within the rules, but not resigning in chess when you are down a massive amount of material and have no counterplay is considered bad form.
While it's true that I haven't taken part in a chess tournament, I have played chess enough to know some of the etiquette, and I know that recognizing you are beaten is a part of being a good player.

I also have played or watched other games and sports tournaments, where it's considered bad form to just leave the game even though you are beaten, because as I stated in my previous post the points you score may be taken into account for ranking you at the end of the tournament.

There is not a one-size-fits-all solution, but from what I have seen, more tournaments seem to follow the principle that a game should run its course to the end than stop early because you are beaten, and probably what the admins had in mind when designing the tournament system.
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