Extra spaces / Removing space=error

[fruktansvärt]

When strings are machine translated to Swedish, spaces are inserted between codes or when codes are inside parenthesis. For example:
${workers_cost}${coins_cost} --> ${workers_cost} ${coins_cost}
(${workers_cost}) --> ( ${workers_cost} )

Does this happen in other languages?
(This doesn't happen when using translate.google.com, only when BGA uses Google Translate.)

The translation system has recently been changed so that changes only in spaces don't count as 'real' change. So you get a warning. But after the warning you get an error message. I've made a bug report about it here:
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=77901

removed-spaces2.jpg (180.67 KiB) Viewed 1011 times

[Een]

Probably we haven't managed correctly the case of machine translated strings when making a change with only spaces (since in that case we keep the translation "ownership" to the previous translator, this may not work for machine translation).

I think that if you confirm then make the change it should work (until we fix that properly).

[KongKing123]

Probably we haven't managed correctly the case of machine translated strings when making a change with only spaces (since in that case we keep the translation "ownership" to the previous translator, this may not work for machine translation).

Why was this changed? If it is trying to prevent abuse, people will just add other symbols or capital letters instead. This is something reports should take care of.

Moreover, it has many downsides:

• Some strings start or end with spaces, and people have to pay attention to this.
• People often erroneously add spaces before punctuation, or just in general (unintentionally).
• An important error in Dutch (and probably other languages) is not writing compositions as one word, without spaces.

It is annoying and detrimental that people are not 'penalised' for these errors anymore and just keep credit for their bad translations.

If you absolutely must have some automatic safeguard, then only trigger the reversion when there are multiple spaces between words, or at the start or end of the string. It should be easy to detect those.

[Een]

Probably we haven't managed correctly the case of machine translated strings when making a change with only spaces (since in that case we keep the translation "ownership" to the previous translator, this may not work for machine translation).

Why was this changed? If it is trying to prevent abuse, people will just add other symbols or capital letters instead. This is something reports should take care of.

Moreover, it has many downsides:

• Some strings start or end with spaces, and people have to pay attention to this.
• People often erroneously add spaces before punctuation, or just in general (unintentionally).
• An important error in Dutch (and probably other languages) is not writing compositions as one word, without spaces.

It is annoying and detrimental that people are not 'penalised' for these errors anymore and just keep credit for their bad translations.

If you absolutely must have some automatic safeguard, then only trigger the reversion when there are multiple spaces between words, or at the start or end of the string. It should be easy to detect those.

This was changed for two reasons:
- some conscientious translators (especially in French) used non-breaking spaces where appropriate; this however, created confusion for translators unaware of this typographic convention as the change was not visible and generated false reports of "stolen" translations;
- there has not been a lot of cases of deliberate abuse of the translation system along the years; most often though, modus operandi was to add spaces (which was harder to spot than a text change).

Now as you remarked, a case can be done about spaces being an important and integral part of the translation. This is probably one of these cases where we cannot satisfy everyone.

The choice that has been made - to aim for the least possible amount of friction - allows extra-conscientious translators to set things as perfect as they feel it should be without frustrating other translators, while cutting off a possibility for abuse. It may not be perfect, but it's the best compromise we have found from experience.

[KongKing123]

- some conscientious translators (especially in French) used non-breaking spaces where appropriate; this however, created confusion for translators unaware of this typographic convention as the change was not visible and generated false reports of "stolen" translations;

Valid point, I was unaware of this.

I know what a non-breaking space is, but I don't know how it works in the translation system. Would you just add a code (like " ") to a string or use a keyboard combination?

In that case, could you not check for this character instead? Maybe it should also be displayed more obviously within the strings (e.g. by converting it to a ⍽ character) and be mentioned somewhere in the FAQ.

- there has not been a lot of cases of deliberate abuse of the translation system along the years; most often though, modus operandi was to add spaces (which was harder to spot than a text change).

I'd argue that people would then add superfluous spaces between words rather than within words, so checking for double spaces (as mentioned above) would be just as robust.


So in summary, I think this would satisfy both reasons while still allowing people to receive credit for correcting actual spacing mistakes:

• Revert on any amount of   characters
• Revert on any occurence of double spaces (maybe triple too)

[fruktansvärt]

• Revert on any amount of   characters

wouldn't abusers just start using   instead of normal spaces?

for my sake, I'm ok with not receiving points for fixing spaces. I'm not sure we need the warning message (that only spaces were changed), though.

[KongKing123]

• Revert on any amount of   characters

wouldn't abusers just start using   instead of normal spaces?

No, I mean that credit would revert to the previous translator when using non-breaking or double spaces. Both of these can't be a content-related change, so this seems fair and tamper-proof enough.

for my sake, I'm ok with not receiving points for fixing spaces. I'm not sure we need the warning message (that only spaces were changed), though.

It's not only about rewarding points for fixing the mistakes, but also discouraging people from making them by taking "their" points away.

[KongKing123]

Now as you remarked, a case can be done about spaces being an important and integral part of the translation. This is probably one of these cases where we cannot satisfy everyone.

As expected, this change turns out to be a nightmare and a regression for Dutch.

Some individual took it upon himself to 'correct' half of the compositions in Paint the Roses by writing them as two words, and now there is no way to easily spot which translations he corrupted. Luckily he was not the first person to translate, or he would have received full credit for it as well (on the other hand, now it incorrectly seems like the original translator doesn't know how to spell).

This is of course only one of many cases, though the most striking one I've encountered so far.

Please consider changing the implementation to my suggestion above.

[Een]

Some individual took it upon himself to 'correct' half of the compositions in Paint the Roses by writing them as two words, and now there is no way to easily spot which translations he corrupted. Luckily he was not the first person to translate, or he would have received full credit for it as well (on the other hand, now it incorrectly seems like the original translator doesn't know how to spell).

If someone is corrupting translations by making clearly invalid changes in a language, there is a "<player name> has corrupted some translations" category for reporting a player. Please make a report with clear examples of corrupted translations and this user will be banned from the translation module.

This is a bit strange though, because the situation was actually worse before relatively to this kind of change (since before there was an incentive to change the translation by adding spaces, while now there is none). So it means that this user genuinely believed that it was better this way?

[ufm]

Some individual took it upon himself to 'correct' half of the compositions in Paint the Roses by writing them as two words, and now there is no way to easily spot which translations he corrupted. Luckily he was not the first person to translate, or he would have received full credit for it as well (on the other hand, now it incorrectly seems like the original translator doesn't know how to spell).

If someone is corrupting translations by making clearly invalid changes in a language, there is a "<player name> has corrupted some translations" category for reporting a player. Please make a report with clear examples of corrupted translations and this user will be banned from the translation module.

This is a bit strange though, because the situation was actually worse before relatively to this kind of change (since before there was an incentive to change the translation by adding spaces, while now there is none). So it means that this user genuinely believed that it was better this way?

Because of the update the changed texts do not credit that player.
So it's harder to detect the corrupted translation by the translator.