How does Gaia project´s auction works?

[RicardoRix]

As Kayvon has said, for any players who want to see auctions in practice, game logs show the bidding steps, such as in this game. https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=400240823.

Which only happens after the you enter your bids.

I don't know why this sentiment keeps getting repeated, it's not meant to be a treasure hunt to find out how a particular function of a game works. And even if you do - all the players bids are not shown, so doesn't give you a full picture anyway.

[Kayvon]

I don't know why this sentiment keeps getting repeated

Because most people understand it from reading the description. The log example is simply available for those who desire a full-length example. It's not difficult to find completed or ongoing tables by any means.

The other part of why things are repeated is because most people don't understand which parts are confusing for people. It's essential to know that in order to explain it better.

You already said you still don't understand it, but you haven't explained that. Which part don't you understand? Even after reading this whole thread, right? Let's work together on this. Help us figure out how to help you figure it out. If you now understand it, what was the confusion before now?

[RicardoRix]

You already said you still don't understand it, but you haven't explained that. Which part don't you understand? Even after reading this whole thread, right? Let's work together on this. Help us figure out how to help you figure it out. If you now understand it, what was the confusion before now?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I welcome specific wording suggestions. Not a general idea at this point, but the actual words that you think would improve it. Alternatively, you may edit the wiki directly.

Above you're making a contradiction.

I have already said a few things earlier that are confusing. In general, the document is a bit terse and cryptic. The system itself is not intuitive - I don't think people are thinking in terms of the difference in their bids. There is actually quite a lot of information being processed by the player during the auction that occurs in Terra Mystica, while it's obviously slower - for players with less experience, it's a vital learning curve that is just lost in playing Gaia Project. I won't lie, the first few auctions I just took a good stab at some numbers without actually trying to understand beforehand, thinking that the understanding would come to me afterwards - it didn't. I don't think it comes to others either, which is why you have these threads.

I have personally made minor changes to the document and added an example log. You could look over this to make sure I'm getting it right.
You could add the actual bids to the game log for all the factions for all the players, as this is missing. It's not possible to get full picture from the game log.
Maybe even provide a link to some information when the auction bids are being placed.
Is it true to say something like, bidding 8 on Ambas and 3 on Itars. The bid on Ambas must reach a value of 5 where you'll start bidding on Itars. You could add this dynamic text under the input text-boxes.

[Kayvon]

I can't tell you how to re-write it, as I don't fully understand it.

I'm acting in good faith here. You're upset that a sentiment keeps getting repeated, but it's repeated because we don't know which part you don't understand and you refuse to tell us. Which part don't you understand? Even after reading this whole thread, right? Help us figure out how to help you figure it out.

You already said you still don't understand it, but you haven't explained that. Which part don't you understand? Even after reading this whole thread, right? Let's work together on this. Help us figure out how to help you figure it out. If you now understand it, what was the confusion before now?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I welcome specific wording suggestions. Not a general idea at this point, but the actual words that you think would improve it. Alternatively, you may edit the wiki directly.

Above you're making a contradiction.

I get the feeling you think it's a contradiction because you think I'm saying both of these:
1) You don't understand the explanation
2) But you should rewrite the explanation

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying these two things:
1) Do you still not understand the rules?
1a. If you don't understand them, "which part don't you understand?"
1b. If you now understand them, "what was the confusion before now?"
2) If you now understand them, you should suggest a better wording.

I've offered repeatedly to help clarify what you don't understand. It's now clear you're not interested in understanding so much as in arguing. More ad hominim attacks, such as this accusation of contradicting myself, rather than accepting my invitation to find clarity. More complaints about how things aren't good, but continual avoidance of the actual parts you find confusing.

If you wanted to understand, you'd have responded to the honest request with a description of the system itself. You can go argue with the rest of the internet trolls. You can even reply with further ad hominim attacks and I won't bother replying, except maybe to report your post. And next time people ask why developers aren't more active in the forums, I'll just provide them a link here.

[RicardoRix]

we'll start off small.

https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=400240823.

In the game log that you advocate so much:

Players will automatically bid on the faction with the greatest gap between its current bid and the player's maximum bid
padrefinancia bids 0 on Firaks (and is willing to bid up to 20 if needed)
Lord-Frey89 bids 1 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 20 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 0 on Xenos (and is willing to bid up to 26 if needed)
Bodyelectric bids 1 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 15 away from Bodyelectric's max bid of 15.)
padrefinancia bids 2 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 19 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 3 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 18 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 2 on Xenos, outbidding Bodyelectric. (The bid was 25 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
Bodyelectric bids 3 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 13 away from Bodyelectric's max bid of 15.)
padrefinancia bids 4 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 17 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 5 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 16 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 4 on Xenos, outbidding Bodyelectric. (The bid was 23 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
Bodyelectric bids 5 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 11 away from Bodyelectric's max bid of 15.)
padrefinancia bids 6 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 15 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 7 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 14 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 6 on Xenos, outbidding Bodyelectric. (The bid was 21 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
Bodyelectric bids 7 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 9 away from Bodyelectric's max bid of 15.)
padrefinancia bids 8 on Xenos, outbidding Bodyelectric. (The bid was 13 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 9 on Xenos, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 18 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
Bodyelectric bids 10 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 6 away from Bodyelectric's max bid of 15.)
padrefinancia bids 8 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 13 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 9 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 12 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 11 on Xenos, outbidding Bodyelectric. (The bid was 16 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
Bodyelectric bids 12 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 4 away from Bodyelectric's max bid of 15.)
padrefinancia bids 10 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 11 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 11 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 10 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 13 on Xenos, outbidding Bodyelectric. (The bid was 14 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
Bodyelectric bids 0 on Bal T'aks (and is willing to bid up to 3 if needed)
padrefinancia bids 12 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 9 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 13 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 8 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
padrefinancia bids 14 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 7 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 15 on Xenos, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 12 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
padrefinancia bids 14 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 7 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 15 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 6 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
padrefinancia bids 16 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 5 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 17 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 4 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
padrefinancia bids 16 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 5 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 17 on Xenos, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 10 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
padrefinancia bids 18 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 3 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 19 on Xenos, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 8 away from Babbuc49's max bid of 26.)
padrefinancia bids 18 on Firaks, outbidding Lord-Frey89. (The bid was 3 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Lord-Frey89 bids 19 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 2 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)
padrefinancia bids 20 on Xenos, outbidding Babbuc49. (The bid was 1 away from padrefinancia's max bid of 20.)
Babbuc49 bids 0 on Lantids (and is willing to bid up to 6 if needed)

How much did Lord-Frey89 bid on Lantids, Firaks and Bal T'aks?

That's what I don't understand form this log.

Threating to being reported is not particularly cool, not entirely sure what I'm still doing here. If you want to stop, they I'll stop. I was just trying to help.

[Kayvon]

His max bid was 2 or less on those other factions. Not enough to matter.

Lord-Frey89 bids 19 on Firaks, outbidding padrefinancia. (The bid was 2 away from Lord-Frey89's max bid of 20.)

If his max bid had been more than 2 on either of the other factions, he would have switched bids. Apparently, Lord-Frey89 wasn't really interested in the other factions. Because the other max bids weren't relevant to the bid sequence, they weren't listed. You can ignore those because they're not high enough to contribute to what occurred.

You'll forgive me if, given the thread's history, I'm a little worried that this is a roundabout way to complain about the logs. If the question is about understanding what's happening, then you have the explanation. If the question is really designed to attack the idea that the irrelevant values aren't listed, then I should have just stood my my earlier assessment of walking away from the thread.

[Kayvon]

You can even reply with further ad hominim attacks and I won't bother replying, except maybe to report your post.

Threating to being reported is not particularly cool, not entirely sure what I'm still doing here. If you want to stop, they I'll stop. I was just trying to help.

This was added after I started my original reply. Personal attacks are not cool. Threatening to report personal attacks ("ad hominim" means making a personal attack) is not just the expected response, but the response that BGA admins specifically request. So saying, "If you make another personal attack, I may report it" is a very rational response.

What I'd like you to stop is the personal attacks. If you want help understanding the specific issues, then let's talk about those. If you want to continue picking apart what people are saying as they try to help, then it's just trolling.

[Sherros]

Hello,

I'm also trying to understand this bidding system. I scuffed my first draft because of misunderstanding the system and after reading this post and the wiki, I still don't quite understand it.

From the wiki:

During the round-robin portion, each player automatically bids on the faction with the greatest difference between the faction's current bid and that player's maximum possible bid.

My confusion is mostly why the bidding seemingly jumps between factions. The factions i wanted the most were the ones i bid the most on and if I didn't get the faction, i wanted the person that did to have to bid to their full amount before getting the faction. What happened instead in the game I was in was that the person got the faction for only 1/2 of what their maximum bid was on the faction.

Also, in your example on the wiki, you should add the differences so it becomes more clear, because the log is not as clear as I think you believe it is

[Anadh]

Hello,
Adding my 2 cents here to give credit to people who try to make it clearer.
I've completely stopped playing Gaia for fear of screwing up a game because I (must be dumb and be part of the "minority that don't understand" and) still don't get how the bidding works either, even after reading this entire thread.
What is super counter intuitive to me is that I would have no clue what to input as values, as they don't represent the number of starting VP I would have with that faction if I win the auction (unlike with the turn by turn Terra Mystica auction for instance).
Sorry if you think we are "trolls", but I can assure you it's nothing of the kind here.
A.

[Kayvon]

It sounds like you're earnestly trying to understand, not trolling. I'm more than happy to help when it's not an argument. Let's break it down together.

What is super counter intuitive to me is that I would have no clue what to input as values, as they don't represent the number of starting VP

It sounds like there you're confused about what you're bidding, right? The short answer is that you're bidding VP, but the confusing aspect is that you don't end up with a negative VP. There are two reasons:

1) You're actually entering your *max bid*, so you may not end up paying the full amount you entered. Quite often, you don't end up needing to bid up all the way to the max possible. You even end up paying zero a lot.

2) After everyone pays their VP, the game actually gives everyone some bonus VP. This happens because Gaia Project often requires you to spend VP for passive charging. Even without the auctions, everyone starts at 10VP. You can see this in the log when it says, "All players receive ## VP to ensure every player starts with at least 10 VP."

The bidding system is based directly on the one used in the official app, which is what was most requested and voted on by players. It takes some time to wrap your head around. Let me know if that helps or if there's a different aspect you have questions about.