Here we go again.

Tournaments organization / Organisation des tournois
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john0607
Posts: 43
Joined: 07 October 2022, 09:01

Here we go again.

Post by john0607 »

Once again I'm leading in a Welcome To tournament match and someone expels the slow player. Guess what? I'm relegated to third and eliminated. The admin on the this site keep saying not to criticize them but it's very hard to do so when we pay to use the service and get shit like this. Frankly if we are paying for it we have a right to expect a decent service and a right to complain if it isn't. So fix this crap and you will have less complaints to deal with.
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Jeronimon
Posts: 177
Joined: 11 June 2022, 11:34

Re: Here we go again.

Post by Jeronimon »

I have not played very many tournaments here, and you sound like you do.

So maybe you can explain it to me.
As I understand it someone from your game community organizes a tournament. That person sets the parameters for the tournament (speed, rounds, knock-out, Swiss round, et cetera).

Players who join the tournament can see those parameters and by joining they agree to that?

But in your game someone went over their allotted time (they agreed with by joining) and they were kicked off by another player in the game. Then the site resolves the situation as ik the game was partially played and awards the remaining players all the same benefits. Which sucks for you since you were leading and now you just get the same as the others. This because of a slow player.

So you want to change the resolve of that situation?
Because the parameters and people going over time is out of control of the admins I think?
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drsteelhammer
Posts: 32
Joined: 21 October 2020, 13:03

Re: Here we go again.

Post by drsteelhammer »

Jeronimon wrote: 10 January 2023, 12:49 I have not played very many tournaments here, and you sound like you do.

So maybe you can explain it to me.
As I understand it someone from your game community organizes a tournament. That person sets the parameters for the tournament (speed, rounds, knock-out, Swiss round, et cetera).

Players who join the tournament can see those parameters and by joining they agree to that?

But in your game someone went over their allotted time (they agreed with by joining) and they were kicked off by another player in the game. Then the site resolves the situation as ik the game was partially played and awards the remaining players all the same benefits. Which sucks for you since you were leading and now you just get the same as the others. This because of a slow player.

So you want to change the resolve of that situation?
Because the parameters and people going over time is out of control of the admins I think?
Not quite. If 2 out of 4 advance, the timeout goes forth, and BGA rolls the dice which of the other 3 gets 3rd place and eliminated
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Tisaac
Posts: 2327
Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Here we go again.

Post by Tisaac »

john0607 wrote: 10 January 2023, 07:49 Once again I'm leading in a Welcome To tournament match and someone expels the slow player. Guess what? I'm relegated to third and eliminated. The admin on the this site keep saying not to criticize them but it's very hard to do so when we pay to use the service and get shit like this. Frankly if we are paying for it we have a right to expect a decent service and a right to complain if it isn't. So fix this crap and you will have less complaints to deal with.
I am really unsure why you are angry at BGA and not at the expulsed/expulsing player.

Evaluating a position in general is really hard. Even if you only takes games when score already means something (already filtering out a very large portion of 2p game for instance where only win/lose matter), having the highest score at some point do not imply at all that you will winning the game with a higher probability than other player. The only reasonnable option I could see for these kind of situations would be to let the remaining players vote for who should be considered as the top first players, but this would bring just sooooo many issue.

Since any other solution to deal with leaving/expulsed player in this kind of situation wouldn't be better than just plain random, the only thing that BGA could work on is try to make these situations rarer, but honestly I wouldn't have any idea on one could do that. Tournament without any timing out players ? You can already filter based on ELO. Or prevent player from expeling other players during tournament ? You could just get locked in a game and block the whole tournament.
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drsteelhammer
Posts: 32
Joined: 21 October 2020, 13:03

Re: Here we go again.

Post by drsteelhammer »

Playing the game out with the turns of the leaver skipped is not ideal, but vastly preferable to the status quo, imo.
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RicardoRix
Posts: 2106
Joined: 29 April 2012, 23:43

Re: Here we go again.

Post by RicardoRix »

Specifically In 'Welcome To' the game should be able to continue with 3 players. With little to no ill effects.
Other alternative solutions could be if the tournament can handle only 1 player being eliminated, OR play the game again from the start with just 3 players.

All of the options have some kind of overhead consideration, but from a player point-of-view it's easy to see why the OP is annoyed.
GeraldineMerida
Posts: 333
Joined: 15 December 2020, 07:27

Re: Here we go again.

Post by GeraldineMerida »

Or just advance all non-timed out players to the next round, skipping someone (not necessarily one of the advanced players) if that makes numbers uneven.
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john0607
Posts: 43
Joined: 07 October 2022, 09:01

Re: Here we go again.

Post by john0607 »

RicardoRix wrote: 10 January 2023, 15:32 Specifically In 'Welcome To' the game should be able to continue with 3 players. With little to no ill effects.
Other alternative solutions could be if the tournament can handle only 1 player being eliminated, OR play the game again from the start with just 3 players.

All of the options have some kind of overhead consideration, but from a player point-of-view it's easy to see why the OP is annoyed.
The others two had already left so that wasn't an option
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john0607
Posts: 43
Joined: 07 October 2022, 09:01

Re: Here we go again.

Post by john0607 »

Jeronimon wrote: 10 January 2023, 12:49 I have not played very many tournaments here, and you sound like you do.

So maybe you can explain it to me.
As I understand it someone from your game community organizes a tournament. That person sets the parameters for the tournament (speed, rounds, knock-out, Swiss round, et cetera).

Players who join the tournament can see those parameters and by joining they agree to that?

But in your game someone went over their allotted time (they agreed with by joining) and they were kicked off by another player in the game. Then the site resolves the situation as ik the game was partially played and awards the remaining players all the same benefits. Which sucks for you since you were leading and now you just get the same as the others. This because of a slow player.

So you want to change the resolve of that situation?
Because the parameters and people going over time is out of control of the admins I think?
Most players know not to time out players going overtime. Yes, when you join you can see the time restraints. Unfortunately, in most cases it seems, there will be one who joins casually and doesn't understand what they are committing to.

The admin don't control who goes overtime but they do control what the end result is when someone is expelled. The only reason poeple choose to not expel 99 percent of the time is cause they know how random and stupid the resolution is. I was a programmer in IT so I know for a fact that this could be resolved in a number ways for a number of games (not all, I grant you) but that would take some work from BGA and they don't seem willing to put in the work
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john0607
Posts: 43
Joined: 07 October 2022, 09:01

Re: Here we go again.

Post by john0607 »

Tisaac wrote: 10 January 2023, 13:34
john0607 wrote: 10 January 2023, 07:49 Once again I'm leading in a Welcome To tournament match and someone expels the slow player. Guess what? I'm relegated to third and eliminated. The admin on the this site keep saying not to criticize them but it's very hard to do so when we pay to use the service and get shit like this. Frankly if we are paying for it we have a right to expect a decent service and a right to complain if it isn't. So fix this crap and you will have less complaints to deal with.
I am really unsure why you are angry at BGA and not at the expulsed/expulsing player.

Evaluating a position in general is really hard. Even if you only takes games when score already means something (already filtering out a very large portion of 2p game for instance where only win/lose matter), having the highest score at some point do not imply at all that you will winning the game with a higher probability than other player. The only reasonnable option I could see for these kind of situations would be to let the remaining players vote for who should be considered as the top first players, but this would bring just sooooo many issue.

Since any other solution to deal with leaving/expulsed player in this kind of situation wouldn't be better than just plain random, the only thing that BGA could work on is try to make these situations rarer, but honestly I wouldn't have any idea on one could do that. Tournament without any timing out players ? You can already filter based on ELO. Or prevent player from expeling other players during tournament ? You could just get locked in a game and block the whole tournament.
You have kind of hit on a solution there. Don't allow peoples to expel, put that in the hands of the tournament organizers. Let them expel a player if it's clear they aren't playing and then allow the match to being again without that player. Or let the organize decide who goes through (but that brings it's own problems). Again, this would take too much work from BGA so it will never happen but the fact is that there are solutions if they are willing to look for them.
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