Another Arena season, another boring set of factions

[Alloran]

Some day maybe lol

Doesn't seem like it, since the Gurus seem to have decided to make this season have EVEN LESS INTERESTING settings, so we are actually moving in the opposite direction, to make every game as similar as possible.

[ChiefPointThief]

Some day maybe lol

Doesn't seem like it, since the Gurus seem to have decided to make this season have EVEN LESS INTERESTING settings, so we are actually moving in the opposite direction, to make every game as similar as possible.

I’m not sure if we’ll see the day when ff are allowed into arena but there is a slim chance compared to the 0% chance for f&i factions. When votes were locked ff tied for second w/ +3 compared to +9 ( I think) for the current settings. Meaning that over 50% are in support of ff. There probably were some people who didn’t necessarily like the option we currently have but voted for it because they still prefer this over ff.

In addition there are some players who are in favor of ff but are waiting for an official announcement that they won’t be modified anymore. Not sure if these ppl actually vote or how many exist but they are out there considering the few who mentioned that here.

The system itself is flawed though. Several people who I play with are completely disengaged from the arena process because it never has settings they like. So typically there will remain more gurus who are in favor of the current settings.

I have been advocating for two separate arena seasons. I don’t see why anyone would object to that or why it is impossible to implement.

[nem69]

Where can we vote for arena settings ? I am very disapointed for disparition of FireAndIce scoring tile (and a little surprised that lot of players vote for it)

[ChiefPointThief]

Where can we vote for arena settings ? I am very disapointed for disparition of FireAndIce scoring tile (and a little surprised that lot of players vote for it)

You have to be a guru for a specific game to vote for it. You become a guru by playing a lot. If you go to the community tab it will show you what games you are a guru in. Then just click it and vote for suggestions for arena or create your own.

[BaseSig]

We won't have a season that appeals to everyone as others have mentioned in the thread.

I'm against fan factions because they aren't an officially released product. Period. I'll play them in non-arena tables someday - I'm not against trying them. Arena however is not the place for them.

Fire and Ice Factions are a little bit more of a mixed bag. I haven't played them with their landscape tiles. However, dragonlords, riverwalkers (and less so shapeshifters) change the game on a fundamental level enough that it can make games wildly unpredictable. Dragonlords in particular need a specific set of scoring tiles to score well, but can completely destroy the game for someone else as there are often a few key non-home hexes that others need they can swipe without consequence as early as round 1. I play Fire and Ice sometimes in real life for fun - the design aspects of them are interesting - but I acknowledge their shortcomings and don't think they are suitable for a healthy metagame.

All that distaste aside, since Fire & Ice is a released product, I'd probably still play arena with these settings fully expecting some games to be destroyed. I try to place as well as I can in arena but I have 0 expectations and don't care about elo, so that may influence that decision heavily.

[ChiefPointThief]

We won't have a season that appeals to everyone as others have mentioned in the thread.

I'm against fan factions because they aren't an officially released product. Period. I'll play them in non-arena tables someday - I'm not against trying them. Arena however is not the place for them.

Fire and Ice Factions are a little bit more of a mixed bag. I haven't played them with their landscape tiles. However, dragonlords, riverwalkers (and less so shapeshifters) change the game on a fundamental level enough that it can make games wildly unpredictable. Dragonlords in particular need a specific set of scoring tiles to score well, but can completely destroy the game for someone else as there are often a few key non-home hexes that others need they can swipe without consequence as early as round 1. I play Fire and Ice sometimes in real life for fun - the design aspects of them are interesting - but I acknowledge their shortcomings and don't think they are suitable for a healthy metagame.

All that distaste aside, since Fire & Ice is a released product, I'd probably still play arena with these settings fully expecting some games to be destroyed. I try to place as well as I can in arena but I have 0 expectations and don't care about elo, so that may influence that decision heavily.

Your reasoning for ff not being allowed in arena is solely because they aren’t an official release? If they were an official release they would magically be suitable for arena? I don’t understand this logic.

My main problem with this talking point is that it mostly comes from people who aren’t willing to allow f&i factions (an official release) into arena. I’ve also seen this argument from supporters of fast auction (a non official setting).

Correct me if I am wrong but did the creator not ask for and give approval for fan factions? If so then that sounds official to me.

[Ranior]

Fan factions are going to be an official release from the publisher at some point, but they still very much are in playtesting and not a finalized form. Given they can and have changed suddenly, and that this impact turn based games that are playing with now changed factions, they should remain out of arena until they become finalized.

[ChiefPointThief]

Fan factions are going to be an official release from the publisher at some point, but they still very much are in playtesting and not a finalized form. Given they can and have changed suddenly, and that this impact turn based games that are playing with now changed factions, they should remain out of arena until they become finalized.

You are in the minority. Several people who use “original release” argument have also said other things to indicate that they don’t want fan factions in arena even once they’re finalized.

How much play testing is needed? There have been thousands and thousands of games. Is there any timeline?

I would like to see fast simple solutions. 2 separate arenas. Asking them not to make any changes to the ff until after the season is over also seems very easy and reasonable.

The timeline now is wait several seasons for the announcement of finalization. Then wait another season so that swing voters get the chance to vote. Then realize the 3-5% of voters who now accept fan factions had no impact. Then we are back to square one. Doesn’t seem very optimistic for people who want ff.

[Patrick of the Isles]

There are a few distinct motivations being shared here.

1. The game Terra Mystica is more enjoyable, fun, and pleasing with the original factions only. (I have found this to be true, so I see myself voting in favor of it for arena.)

2. The game is more accessible to newer players with only the original factions. (I don't necessarily agree with this, and more to the point I don't care much about it, as I think people should just play what they find fun, but there are people who vote based on this theory.)

3. The game should not include the "fan factions" because they are in an iterative design process and are still subject to change before official publication. (I wouldn't tend to include them at all, so I don't consider this point, but some folks do).

I have been advocating for two separate arena seasons. I don’t see why anyone would object to that or why it is impossible to implement.

People have advocated for multiple arena leaderboards for many other games since arena started, including for games with many, many more games played each season than Terra Mystica. Browse the forums for almost any game with expansions. So far the site administrators do not seem to wish to go in that direction. I suspect it relates to speed of finding a game being decreased if the player base is substantially fragmented as well as confusion for newer users and the dilution of the meaning of arena mode - the whole point is one can play any settings they want in normal mode, but arena mode provides a single unifying touchpoint for those who want to be part of a seasonal competition.

[ChiefPointThief]

I know the odds of dual arena seasons are slim to none but bga should at least give it a test trial for games w/ a strong enough player base to support it. I also play ttr and catan which are in similar situations and have a way larger player base for arena (10,000).

I am on the winning side of Catan but I completely understand the 4p argument and I don’t think it’s right that thousands of players don’t get to play with arena settings they prefer because they are the slight minority. If there is a 90/10 split then there is nothing to talk about. But these situations all appear to be about 35-45% one side. I honestly don’t care to play Catan competitively but I play arena because there is always a game readily available. Even though Catan players complain about the arena format a lot of them still play so that is one counter argument I guess that maybe it will create longer wait times for arena. I don’t think that is a concern for tm though because mostly players either like playing w/ additional factions or don’t and are unwilling to play w/ settings they don’t like.