Being able to abandon games

[Ant Stewart]

How often does that happen anyway? Take the lose or play through. If anything, this makes all the players be more careful about what games they join.

That's the issue though - I don't want to be careful - I want to press play now with my preferred settings, and have a game with people who also want to the same settings, including my choice in convention.

But everyone is by default set up to all conventions, so you end up with people joining in games who refuse to play finesse (at a surprisingly high level).

I'd personally like a no pressure way to agree to abandon games at or near the start when it is clear that the remainder of the game will not be enjoyable for those involved. It could be something as simple as `abandon penalty = 10 * percent complete`. Abandons at the start where it is clear the game is not aligned are cheap, abandons later are expensive.

[Stroom]

How often does that happen anyway? Take the lose or play through. If anything, this makes all the players be more careful about what games they join.

That's the issue though - I don't want to be careful - I want to press play now with my preferred settings, and have a game with people who also want to the same settings, including my choice in convention.

But everyone is by default set up to all conventions, so you end up with people joining in games who refuse to play finesse (at a surprisingly high level).

I'd personally like a no pressure way to agree to abandon games at or near the start when it is clear that the remainder of the game will not be enjoyable for those involved. It could be something as simple as `abandon penalty = 10 * percent complete`. Abandons at the start where it is clear the game is not aligned are cheap, abandons later are expensive.

Just... take the loss and play again. You seem to play at a 600 elo level at the moment, also with no multicolor or black powder. Quite rare and easy setup. These are fairly simple games anyway so you should not really worry about elo at all. If anything, considering the occasional abandon should be a part of the elo environment for you. You can't compare players who play with multicolors and black powder to your settings anyway. So just do not look at that score at all.

[Ant Stewart]

How often does that happen anyway? Take the lose or play through. If anything, this makes all the players be more careful about what games they join.

That's the issue though - I don't want to be careful - I want to press play now with my preferred settings, and have a game with people who also want to the same settings, including my choice in convention.

But everyone is by default set up to all conventions, so you end up with people joining in games who refuse to play finesse (at a surprisingly high level).

I'd personally like a no pressure way to agree to abandon games at or near the start when it is clear that the remainder of the game will not be enjoyable for those involved. It could be something as simple as `abandon penalty = 10 * percent complete`. Abandons at the start where it is clear the game is not aligned are cheap, abandons later are expensive.

Just... take the loss and play again. You seem to play at a 600 elo level at the moment, also with no multicolor or black powder. Quite rare and easy setup. These are fairly simple games anyway so you should not really worry about elo at all. If anything, considering the occasional abandon should be a part of the elo environment for you. You can't compare players who play with multicolors and black powder to your settings anyway. So just do not look at that score at all.

I'm not really bothered by ELO. But the attitude has moved to one of needing to complete every game.
Previously misaligned games were a case of - thats unfortunate, we ended up in a game where we don't want to play the same, lets quit and find a new game. No harm, everyone is happy and moves on to their next game.

Now there feels like there is pressure to take games to completion. People don't want to abandon, which means you get stuck in games which aren't really what anyone wants to be playing.

Personally, I am enjoying Hanabi less since the change. I feel I am in games with people who don't know the conventions far more often, and am obliged to see these games through to completion. I do also see why people didn't like the old system, but perhaps there is some middle ground that can be found, solving the issue of ELO fixing, but also allowing for obvious poor matchups to be avoided.

[Jellby]

I'm not really bothered by ELO. But the attitude has moved to one of needing to complete every game.
Previously misaligned games were a case of - thats unfortunate, we ended up in a game where we don't want to play the same, lets quit and find a new game. No harm, everyone is happy and moves on to their next game.

If you don't care about ELO, you can just abandon as before. You lose 10 ELO, but you don't care about it.

If the problem is other people do care and they don't want to abandon, you should play in "friendly mode", where you can abandon without penalty and everyone knows about that.

[shaun hoversten]

That's the issue though - I don't want to be careful - I want to press play now with my preferred settings, and have a game with people who also want to the same settings, including my choice in convention.

But everyone is by default set up to all conventions, so you end up with people joining in games who refuse to play finesse (at a surprisingly high level).

I'd personally like a no pressure way to agree to abandon games at or near the start when it is clear that the remainder of the game will not be enjoyable for those involved. It could be something as simple as `abandon penalty = 10 * percent complete`. Abandons at the start where it is clear the game is not aligned are cheap, abandons later are expensive.

Just... take the loss and play again. You seem to play at a 600 elo level at the moment, also with no multicolor or black powder. Quite rare and easy setup. These are fairly simple games anyway so you should not really worry about elo at all. If anything, considering the occasional abandon should be a part of the elo environment for you. You can't compare players who play with multicolors and black powder to your settings anyway. So just do not look at that score at all.

I'm not really bothered by ELO. But the attitude has moved to one of needing to complete every game.
Previously misaligned games were a case of - thats unfortunate, we ended up in a game where we don't want to play the same, lets quit and find a new game. No harm, everyone is happy and moves on to their next game.

Now there feels like there is pressure to take games to completion. People don't want to abandon, which means you get stuck in games which aren't really what anyone wants to be playing.

Personally, I am enjoying Hanabi less since the change. I feel I am in games with people who don't know the conventions far more often, and am obliged to see these games through to completion. I do also see why people didn't like the old system, but perhaps there is some middle ground that can be found, solving the issue of ELO fixing, but also allowing for obvious poor matchups to be avoided.

Ant, as I shared with you before, you use the "auto select" function to generate a table. If you simply click "play now" and use "manual" instead of "automatic", you can be more selective in which tables you create and/or join. If you wish to use the auto feature, then I would suggest upping your restriction to "expert and above". While it is not foolproof, you will find less people in that range that don't know finesse/bluff than with "strong and above" or "good and above"

[Stroom]

I'm not really bothered by ELO. But the attitude has moved to one of needing to complete every game.
Previously misaligned games were a case of - thats unfortunate, we ended up in a game where we don't want to play the same, lets quit and find a new game. No harm, everyone is happy and moves on to their next game.

Now there feels like there is pressure to take games to completion. People don't want to abandon, which means you get stuck in games which aren't really what anyone wants to be playing.

Personally, I am enjoying Hanabi less since the change. I feel I am in games with people who don't know the conventions far more often, and am obliged to see these games through to completion. I do also see why people didn't like the old system, but perhaps there is some middle ground that can be found, solving the issue of ELO fixing, but also allowing for obvious poor matchups to be avoided.

If you are not bothered by elo then abandoning and losing 10 points should be fine to you.

IMO players SHOULD play all the games to the end, no matter what. Sure, some bad games happen but it is up to you to learn from it and not to make the same mistakes again. And you can see some tougher situations to try and fix it. You might learn more from this rather than always only finishing the easy decks where it was almost impossible not to get max score.

The issue with bad players probably comes from playing with lower elo players than your current elo. The easiest fix is to set filters for who you play with.

[jgpaladin]

The issue with bad players probably comes from playing with lower elo players than your current elo. The easiest fix is to set filters for who you play with.

This breaks down with all the incompetent masters-level players, but otherwise I agree.

[Lara8818]

Now there feels like there is pressure to take games to completion. People don't want to abandon, which means you get stuck in games which aren't really what anyone wants to be playing.

You never need to take a karma hit to unilaterally 'abandon' a game you're not enjoying, even if there isn't agreement. You have the power to bomb three turns in a row, game over. This is not a reportable action, I would assume, because there's no fair way to differentiate even the most obvious bad play from a mistake or a misclick. It isn't something I do, because I'm that stubborn one who ticks lots of people off because if I start a game, I do my utmost to finish the game, but the option is there.

It's also possible to refine your Hanabi experience over time using the RT system. I will RT anyone who tries to bully others into abandoning, gives hand info after being politely and repeatedly asked to stop, or generally acts rude or toxic. The time taken out of my life by playing one such game with these users is minimal, and the reward is never encountering them again. I've also had many people inform me that they will RT me because of my strict interpretation of the rules, and I cheerfully encourage them to do so - we'll both be happier in the future if we don't try to play Hanabi together again.

And of course, if you're annoyed by someone who is less skilled than you thought their ELO would suggest, RT is a good fix for that too.

I do wish that it were possible to specify your RTs by game - there are some people whose playstyle for co-op games is different enough from mine that I'll RT them for the sake of both of our future peace of mind, but I could probably play competitive games against them without issue. (The fact that the latter sort of game almost never has the level of nastiness I see in the former is an irony that doesn't escape me.)

[Wreckage]

I do wish that it were possible to specify your RTs by game - there are some people whose playstyle for co-op games is different enough from mine that I'll RT them for the sake of both of our future peace of mind, but I could probably play competitive games against them without issue. (The fact that the latter sort of game almost never has the level of nastiness I see in the former is an irony that doesn't escape me.)

When I am inclined to give a RT, I usually write a note on that player as well. Especially if it's game specific. If someone is not rude, but you just don't like playing co-op with them, maybe a note on them is better than a RT. This way you are not blocked from playing other games with them.

It's not a bad idea to date your note as well. If someone was a terrible hanabi player 3 years ago, maybe they deserve another chance.

[Silene]

Previously misaligned games were a case of - thats unfortunate, we ended up in a game where we don't want to play the same, lets quit and find a new game. No harm, everyone is happy and moves on to their next game.

You're making a false assumption there that everyone is happy about it.

Countless times have I been in a situation where people wanted to abandon and I wasn't happy about it. So I rejected the suggestion. That was usually not because of wrong settings (i usually accepted in such cases or when someone had to leave) but because mistakes had happened. And countless times has it happened that people didn't accept my right to reject and tried to bully me into accepting. I reported (they were always found guilty) and RTed so many players because of this and it still kept happening again and again with other people.

It hasn't happened once since the change. So for me it's a big relieve and far better experience to play Hanabi now