Wood Duck

[detlefchef11]

Except it's not that strong. The only place I've ever heard of anyone complaining about it is on BGA when playing with the Big 4 banned.

This is a strange hill for you to choose to die on. It is undeniably a very strong card. One could argue that it's not as strong as the big 4. But, at very least, it's just behind them and is, by a good stretch, the strongest card in Arena mode. One could also argue that it shouldn't be removed, but to take it as far as you do. To imply that it's really not all that strong of a card, is simply obtuse and contrarian.

I know this much is true: my win rate when I get it down early is significantly higher than my overall win rate. If I'm playing against someone who gets it down early, I feel VERY fortunate to pull out a W. Like, basically, they have to get really bad luck for the rest of the game or simply be a bad player who knows just enough to play it in the forest but, in general, is not very good. When I see someone play it in the wetlands, I'm as thrilled as I am when I see someone put the common raven in the forest or the Killdeer/Gull in the wetlands.

I have also found it to be an asset played as late as early in the 3rd round provided circumstances line up. Of course, that could be said for the big 4 as I've certainly passed on playing Killdeer/Gull in the 3rd round if I felt that I already had the cards I needed to end the game and don't have any tuck/lay birds in my grassland. Ravens may have a slightly later threshold in terms of when they're still worth playing, but that's basically the primary knock on the duck and, in truth, it's not THAT much worse in that regard than the other four.

Again, compared to the Big 4 it is not strong. I stand by that, and outside a few on BGA forums no one else complains about the Wood Duck. Perhaps Arena should not be two player. that's utterly ridiculous that the standard mode is in an unbalanced player count.

A very good player has at least a 70% win rate in general but likely a 90+ win rate if they get that card down early. That's strong enough for me.

[TryWhite]

Good ole' made up statistics!

Pulling made up % from your pocket is worth the same as the lint it's attached to.

[Ceaseless]

If your opponent has it in their starting hand, and there's a seed in the feeder, then it will certainly be played on top row.
Then they can just keep drawing blind from deck, and there's pretty much no counter play to it. They can keep building on the forest/top row, without ever building on bottom row (especially if it's not end-of-round goal).
At least one other duck (Ruddy duck I think) which has same text, it cannot be put into forest.

There is a counter, though I agree it's a very strong bird. And the counter isn't perfect. Spam food. Play and activate phoebes and hummingbirds in the grassland. Like if someone has a raven, spamming food makes food less valuable because everyone has plenty of it. Now they're just gaining food they don't need to get cards.

Strengthening your opponent by lesser margins than usual is not a counter. I think cards like the Hummingbird's do get better as the food is more likely to help you than them by more than usual, but it's not like giving them food is a good thing, just less bad than it usually is. They can gain food a bit less and focus on dropping more and stronger birds, preferably in the Grassland, but the high value Wetlands birds are solid as well. Draw engines like having more food, that's another reason Wood Duck is so terrifying in the first place.

[Ceaseless]

If your opponent has it in their starting hand, and there's a seed in the feeder, then it will certainly be played on top row.
Then they can just keep drawing blind from deck, and there's pretty much no counter play to it. They can keep building on the forest/top row, without ever building on bottom row (especially if it's not end-of-round goal).
At least one other duck (Ruddy duck I think) which has same text, it cannot be put into forest.

Don't even need a seed in the feeder. Just keep a seed and fruit, then 2 for 1 the remaining seed. You could even first turn Wood Duck if you're wiling for it to be your only bird, it will draw friends for itself anyways. If you really want bird#2 though, you can still keep seed and fruit, then go for any kind of food for the double. You'll be using the gain food option often enough to justify the slight food inefficiency of the 2 for 1, not to mention the enormous edge of the Wood Duck itself.

Except it's not that strong. The only place I've ever heard of anyone complaining about it is on BGA when playing with the Big 4 banned.

I'm not sure why you're using "places you've seen complain about it" as the metric. For one thing, that doesn't even mean they're not there, just that you didn't read them. Bird power arguments don't seem to be the dominant thread features of discussion in general. It's also not like we'd be privy to what a lot of the players that actually know how to play Wingspan say about the best cards. I'm a mid 400s Wingspanner on BGA that occasionally breaks 500. You are a 300s player. We're fairly low level Wingspan players unlikely to run into all of these chats, I wouldn't try using offhand memory of what threads we've seen as a reliable metric even on what discussions have been out there, let alone how accurate they were.

[troopa]

Let me jump in the thread after reviewing all your posts.
I don't consider me a strong player but I have a fair understanding of game mechanics in general.

At first I was shocked on how improbable it was to lose if playing wood duck in gne first 3/4 cubes (except when playing poorly which I recently did so I would think a big - for the WD would be overconfidence haha). Anyway what I observed is that unless public objectives are asking you to play in wetland, you can pretty much ignore the area. This leads to two problems : 1) it allows you to focus on getting food and eggs, which can lead to a crushing middle game WHILE having free spots in water for strong wetlands finishers (with cards like penguin). 2)it gives you a window for harassment, a point I've seen mentioned only once.

Why are people talking a "net" gain when this is not the only ability of the WD? Having the luxury to control the bird pool, denying counterplays, or even cycling the bad cards you got from the "draw from deck" is huge. In my opinion the mistake on that bird is the draw two discard one instead of draw one.

Of course it is even more of a problem because the big/small 4 are banned. This is probably a mistake to do so, because you either ban the 5 or you don't ban any. Their absence create an illusionary OP bird from the starting hand and from what I understand as long as no expansion is scheduled on BGA this won't be resolved.

I like to play arena, I like wingspan boardgame the most, but this setup makes me wonder if I should explore other platforms to avoid the few games where I consider conceding while the game just started .

[Madlaine]

Wood Duck can be beaten when poor used, with bad luck or when other people have an amazing game on their own.
Removing good birds from the open market is an obvious move in this game, but can always backlash. Who never got rid of a crow To uncover a puffin ?
Ultimatly, whishing To bring back Ravens and co To "balance" the Duck is foolish. Adding european extension would be a better call. There is pretty of abominations suce as Ruff or swan To deal with.

[zaperok0]

Before the new format for next season begins I have added the Wood duck ban additionally. I think at the end most of us agree that wood duck Is too powerful and should be banned. Hope you guys vote and we ban it.

[detlefchef11]

Wood Duck can be beaten when poor used, with bad luck or when other people have an amazing game on their own.
Removing good birds from the open market is an obvious move in this game, but can always backlash. Who never got rid of a crow To uncover a puffin ?
Ultimatly, whishing To bring back Ravens and co To "balance" the Duck is foolish. Adding european extension would be a better call. There is pretty of abominations suce as Ruff or swan To deal with.

and white stork. That is an awesome card

[paramesis]

Before the new format for next season begins I have added the Wood duck ban additionally. I think at the end most of us agree that wood duck Is too powerful and should be banned. Hope you guys vote and we ban it.

I should clarify that the arena format vote involving Wood Duck would not automatically result in this change being implemented. It would need to be programmed manually. I have reached out to Stonemaier Games, who have taken the position that adding Wood Duck to the "Power 4" would be worth trying as an additional option under "Remove Powerful Birds" if a majority of the community feels it would be an improvement. However, Jamey has reiterated his earlier statement that this should not be seen as an evolving "banlist" and has asked me not to use the word "ban" when discussing this topic.

[zaperok0]

Can someone explain me why wood duck is still on? I have 100% winrate with that duck and it is brainless. You just need wood duck and another bird that places eggs on the forest and that's it game over. It plays itself.