Board Game Arena

Please DON"T display the ELO of players inside a Catan game! I was targeted with the robber even though I'm behind and the reason they gave was just that my ELO was high. I believe many low skilled players would choose to target a high ELO player when they're clueless about who to steal from, and Catan is the kind of game that it's very hard to play and enjoy when your opponents have bias against you. It would be not a fair game for experienced players!

What's the point of showing player ELO in a match? I tried to think and could think of absolutely no good reason. Its only purpose is like "Hey look, this guy is good, let's gang on him!"

Yeah weird reason in a game that also depend on luck…

Games with high luck and social aspects should not have elo at all. It's so dumb that everyone obsesses over these metrics.

In Arena and in simple games, I often factor in opposing player's skill as well as established game history with them. Have I lost to them consistently in the past? Are they ranked better than me? Are they elite while I'm still gold, and our opponents are silver/bronze? If so, I'm more likely to rob you.. It makes sense to target the best player to increase your odds of winning. Keeping this info available is a no brainer for serious competitors.

Stroom wrote: ↑13 April 2023, 21:18 Games with high luck and social aspects should not have elo at all. It's so dumb that everyone obsesses over these metrics.

Try playing with pro players 10 games and see how many you can win in a "high luck" game. There's obviously the luck factor, but less than many people thought

jesshotdog wrote: ↑14 April 2023, 02:33 In Arena and in simple games, I often factor in opposing player's skill as well as established game history with them. Have I lost to them consistently in the past? Are they ranked better than me? Are they elite while I'm still gold, and our opponents are silver/bronze? If so, I'm more likely to rob you.. It makes sense to target the best player to increase your odds of winning. Keeping this info available is a no brainer for serious competitors.

This is the exact reason it should not be there. It encourages poor players to make mindless block & steal decisions based on a bias instead of really use their brains to analyze the situation and make the best strategic decision.

We all have opinions. :shrug:

_KwiZ_ wrote: ↑14 April 2023, 03:13

Stroom wrote: ↑13 April 2023, 21:18 Games with high luck and social aspects should not have elo at all. It's so dumb that everyone obsesses over these metrics.

Try playing with pro players 10 games and see how many you can win in a "high luck" game. There's obviously the luck factor, but less than many people thought

Every time I argue about luck in Catan, people talk about differently skilled players playing. But if you put similarly skilled players together, what difference is left? Luck and social aspect.

Elo does not necessarily indicate if someone is pro. If all players are evenly highly skilled then the luck factor starts increasing. You will get many games where at least 2 players are 1 lucky roll from winning and suddenly one of them wins... Was it really based on skill or was it luck?

Sure, a non-skilled player can easily lose. A high-skilled player can lose as well if other players just happen to be luckier in the beginning and block him in. Social aspect can easily change the course of the game. If someone has a reputation then other players will target him more than actually needed. At the moment it's elo but it can also be any other indication that the player is good - winning tournaments or displaying their skill by talking about strategies during the game.

There is no objective metric to indicate a players skill level. Similarly there is no elo for Poker players. So just do not use it at all.

Stroom wrote: ↑14 April 2023, 05:22 Every time I argue about luck in Catan, people talk about differently skilled players playing. But if you put similarly skilled players together, what difference is left? Luck and social aspect.

Elo does not necessarily indicate if someone is pro. If all players are evenly highly skilled then the luck factor starts increasing. You will get many games where at least 2 players are 1 lucky roll from winning and suddenly one of them wins... Was it really based on skill or was it luck?

Sure, a non-skilled player can easily lose. A high-skilled player can lose as well if other players just happen to be luckier in the beginning and block him in. Social aspect can easily change the course of the game. If someone has a reputation then other players will target him more than actually needed. At the moment it's elo but it can also be any other indication that the player is good - winning tournaments or displaying their skill by talking about strategies during the game.

There is no objective metric to indicate a players skill level. Similarly there is no elo for Poker players. So just do not use it at all.

It's true that there is no perfect metric to measure a player's skill. But you admitted that there are skilled players and non-skilled players, and Catan is not a pure luck game. So something like elo is a rough estimate of a player's skill, and it's not meaningless. Anyway, even elo is removed completely, I'm ok with that. I'm just against displaying that elo in a game.

I'd rather remove/hide player names, avatars, genders, flags and reputation than ELO. Those have absolutely no effect in the game, while ELO is by definition based on game performance so it's a valid reason to base your decisions on.