Quitting to prevent partner from losing elo.

[Z0rtea]

Hello,

I feel the need to post this here because somebody has removed other players' comments, in a form of censorship, from the post-game comment section.
Therefore, I have decided to post the remaining comments, and comments added since the censorship, here so that a record of the incident and comments will remain. Efforts are underway to return the removed comments.

The comments are related to the incident in a previous game where one player (Cobra_ss - she has been admitted to it) deliberately quit a game of tichu, with the score at about 240-960, so that they could prevent their partner (Zeezee), who was on 499 elo, from losing elo points. https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=366528984
This would give them the chance of getting that final win in the next game to reach 500 elo, which Zeezee managed in the next game - hence the comments below.

However, some tichu players don't agree with this action on an ethical level seeing it as a form of kingmaking, certainly unpleasant, and disrespectful to other players. Some of those players posted comments to share their opinions, those comments have since been removed by person unknown, for now, in a form of censorship.

You, as valid members of the tichu playing community on BGA, can freely form your own opinion of this action.

cobra_ss OMG CONGRATS FOR BEING THE FIRST TICHU EXPERT ON BGA HISTORY
4 days ago

cobra_ss Really deserve it
4 days ago

cobra_ss but now u can’t use this account to play for a few weeks
4 days ago

zeezee88 omg! can't believe we broke the curse!!! this game was all Lenko! i made a couple of big mistakes. Thanks Cobra too for getting me here!
4 days ago

cobra_ss # #
4 days ago

Lenko Congratulations on finally making it to 500 Zee! You finally broke the curse ahaha. Well deserved victory after grinding it out for so many years. We're up next @Cobra, we can't let Zee think he's a lot better than us LOOOOL
4 days ago

cobra_ss I’m like 410 right now will take a while till I reach 500 hahahhahaha will help you reach second
3 days ago

COMMENTS BY OTHERS WHICH WERE REMOVED WERE HERE.

Yalsen I am sorry for you zee, that you cannot enjoy the glory of reaching 500 because of cobra's act. Sadly, you couldn't keep your result clean. Now Cobra sanctions me for my opinion by suspending playing with me. I ask anyone, who thinks cobra made the right decision to leave that game, to unfriend me, because in this case we don't share the same ethical position.
1 day ago

Z0rtea I don't know how you have managed to get these other comments deleted to hide the embarrassment of your unethical behaviour which was almost cheating. Cheating your opponents in the game and the other players on bga, in particular the other players near the top of the elo rankings. You are obviously trying to hide your conduct because you know how bad it was. One of you has already admitted it.
1 h 30 m ago

Z0rtea You can red thumb me and anyone else who feels the same, and delete these messages, but it just proves that you don't want others to know because you know what you did was a very bad decision. Trying to censor other people's opinions is very bad. Is this function to post comments equally available to all players on bga??? What is this BGA???
1 h 30 m ago

cobra_ss People at the top 7 are: z, lenko, Quali, sobriety, my second account and cobalt and guess what every one of the top 7 players either mostly with me or only with me…
3 minutes ago

Z0rtea LMAO, if you think this is just about the top 7 players (even though some of them are completely biased), it shows your disregard for every other tichu player on bga. This is about more than just the top 7 players. It does not concern me who is with you and the possible retribution from you (and friends), I have strength in my opinion.
0 minutes ago

Z0rtea You and your "friends" have already begun by censoring people who disagree with you. Even though you frequently like to post comments on games yourself, you don't like it when others do the same with a differing opinion to yours. I also notice your charm offensive with others has begun.
0 minutes ago

Z0rtea You have undermined Zeezee's achievement in reaching 500, but what message does it give to others? Is it ok to get your partner (maybe more players will use a stooge account) to quit so they don't lose elo when trying to reach goals, 300, 330, 400?. Maybe another player will reach 500 soon without the help of their partner deliberately quitting. Will their achievement be more valid?
0 minutes ago

If/when the removed comments are recovered they will be added here.

Have a good day!

[santhosh163]

I agree with the post and have unfriended the highlighted accounts in question.

[Stealthpup]

cobra_ss People at the top 7 are: z, lenko, Quali, sobriety, my second account

Are multiple accounts acceptable on BGA?

[Jellby]

I think they're only explicitly forbidden if you use them to cheat or win ELO. If you never play with both accounts in the same game, they're probably accepted, or at least no one cares very much.

A possible method for ELO milking would be to repeatedly use your B account to lose on purpose against a 3r player C, in order to inflate their ELO, and then play with your A account against C and win, to get a higher ELO increase than you deserve (because C's ELO is inflated). This is clearly cheating too, but more difficult to detect, and to carry out (you need C to not play and lose against other people, and still need B to have a decent ELO).

But for the purpose of Tichu, using your two accounts to play as a team is cheating and not allowed.

[cobra_ss]

Hi all,

For those who want clarification about the situation, my partner zeezee88 and I were playing against players doogi and thursdayevening. https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=366528984

Before we had even started the game, i was very nervous since my partner was 499 ELO, just 1 point away from 500. It was a lot of pressure for me since zeezee88 and I had lost an opportunity to reach 500 together a few weeks prior.

We had a tough game where the opponents had most of the high cards throughout the game, including five bombs. From all the bombs and built-up pressure, I felt it was too much stress and anxiety for me to handle. And for that reason, I decided to quit the game abruptly without taking enough time to consider the consequences of what could happen after the game.

My decision on quitting, was made entirely on my own. Zeezee88 had zero contribution to my judgement; therefore, I hope people don’t direct any anger or disappointment towards zeezee88 and only direct it towards me.

As one of the top player on BGA Tichu, I must set a good example for the Tichu community and all players. I am imperfect but have learned a lot from this situation and will ensure something like this doesn’t happen again! I would like to apologize to my partner Zeezee88 for making him get involved in something he had no participation in and would also like to apologize to all the players who found my action unfair and unpleasant.

Thanks all for reading

[cobra_ss]

cobra_ss People at the top 7 are: z, lenko, Quali, sobriety, my second account

Are multiple accounts acceptable on BGA?

I am not sure to be honest, a lot of my friends who play tichu and myself have at least 2 accounts, where we use one to play freely with random players and one with fixed partners. I personally do not think its an issue as long as you are transparent with your identity and play fairly! Let me know if this is not allowed and i will share this information with others!

[Lenko]

I don't understand why this even needs to be a forum topic. Clearly, it is not a public discussion, and you @Z0rtea, are using it to your own accord simply because you are unable to post defamatory comments on zeezee88's publication.

People quit for a myriad of reasons; perhaps there was a sudden emergency, such as a family member needing some help and sufficient notice could not be given, or even simply not wanting to continue the game for whatever reasons. It happens - life happens. I myself have abandoned a couple of games for one reason or other. When it comes to long games such as Tichu, leaving becomes a pain to the supposed winning team because of the time investment needed per game (usually 45 mins up to 2 hours).

It is one's prerogative to quit and the consequence is the defaulter losing massive ELO points, as though they had played the game to the end and actually lost the game. In addition, the quitter will lose an additional 10 ELO points, and face karmic retribution (losing 10-20 Karma score). Whilst this behavoir is not encouraged, it is still down to the individual's choice whether or not they want to suffer the repercussions to their hard-earned ELO. In such events, players, especially the ones with lower ELO, will still gain the majority of the points that they are entitled to assuming the game is played to fruition. It's not at all too bad, if I must say so myself. Try reaching 470 ELO like many of us top players. Each game nets us a measly 4 points at most, and when opponents abandon, we get 0 ELO.

And while we are on this ride, I would like to speak up for my friends who are being cyberbullied. Yep, this is what you are doing to them @Z0rtea. I know you have also tried using several other accounts to post your dissatisfaction on the publication, namely with accounts Z0rtea, deejinlondon, Ranier, FagAshLil, ACSteele1835.

To me, what you are doing is abhorrent behaviour. You actively post defamatory comments about 2 people (zeezee88 and cobra_ss) on a Tichu game that has absolutely nothing to do with you. When your comments were deleted, you switched to your many other accounts and continued to harrass and attack the 2. Following a toxic rinse and repeat cycle, you then opened up a forum topic, which as I have mentioned earlier on, is clearly not a public discussion for the community to benefit from. It is evident that you are a cyberbully, and it is such a puzzle why you are doing so, seeing as you are an irrelevant party to this. I daresay that it is purely because zeezee88 has achieved 502 ELO, something you can never attain. And thus, you resort to cyberbullying in a mundane attempt to quell your spite and jealousy.

What one chooses to display on one's wall is entirely one's prerogative as well. The fact that BGA allows for deletion of comments is proof that it is permissible. I strongly urge BGA to look into the matter of Z0rtea/ deejinlondon/ Ranier/ FagAshLil/ ACSteele1835's cyberbullying as I am of the view that such behavior ought not to be tolerated.

P/S @Z0rtea, if you don't like what cobra_ss did, why did you yourself leave your own Tichu games? (Z0rtea and co.'s score on the left side)
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=367730019 (680-820; Tichu call failed due to bomb from opponent)
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=354923298 (360-340; Grand Tichu call failed when opponent was about to exit with 1 card remaining)
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=356402641 (740-960; Grand Tichu call failed when opponent exited first)
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=355699095 (585-815; partner's Tichu call failed when opponent was about to exit with 1 card remaining)
... and these are just the games within the last 60 days.

[thursdayevening]

I was an opponent of cobra and zz in the game under discussion. I've played dozens of games with both, separately and as a team, for over a year. My partner in the game was a player new to me. Because three of us are friends, I considered cobra's request a personal favor. I consented to abandon the game and urged my partner to do so, while respecting whatever choice they decided to make. in my extensive experience with cobra, they have never cheated, never quit on purpose, were never disrespectful or rude, and in fact went out of their way to make each game a joyful experience, and an opportunity for everyone to improve their play. Like Bridge and Poker, Tichu is a game of skill, luck, and relationships. For cobra relationships are all-important, and they continue to improve their skills and the skills of others. A player like that is more than entitled to ask for a break from a friend imo.

[Qualitaetsgarant]

People quit for a myriad of reasons; perhaps there was a sudden emergency, such as a family member needing some help and sufficient notice could not be given, or even simply not wanting to continue the game for whatever reasons. It happens - life happens.

Cobra already stated why she left the game. The reasons you are bringing up like sudden emergencies or family members were not the case.

it is still down to the individual's choice whether or not they want to suffer the repercussions to their hard-earned ELO.

I don't agree to this. Would you still agree if i create an account called Super-Q which either wins or gets 0 ELO because all my partners forfeit for me in case of losing? Basically you could create infinite ELO like that.

To me, what you are doing is abhorrent behaviour. You actively post defamatory comments about 2 people (zeezee88 and cobra_ss) on a Tichu game that has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Considering aspects of fair play are worth it. Still i think with cobras answer the case was kinda closed, so I am unsure if opening up the whole case again is benefitting this discussion and in cobras interest.

[santhosh163]

I was an opponent of cobra and zz in the game under discussion. I've played dozens of games with both, separately and as a team, for over a year. My partner in the game was a player new to me. Because three of us are friends, I considered cobra's request a personal favor. I consented to abandon the game and urged my partner to do so, while respecting whatever choice they decided to make. in my extensive experience with cobra, they have never cheated, never quit on purpose, were never disrespectful or rude, and in fact went out of their way to make each game a joyful experience, and an opportunity for everyone to improve their play. Like Bridge and Poker, Tichu is a game of skill, luck, and relationships. For cobra relationships are all-important, and they continue to improve their skills and the skills of others. A player like that is more than entitled to ask for a break from a friend imo.

To me this is helpful and good enough, appreciate this Thursday evening. This certainly excludes this 1 game in question - because it's a personal decision between friends.

Have always had great respect for your play and your polite personality, and this only increases that.