How can BGA improve Real-Time matchmaking?

[Perduicitte]

Premise: For whatever my reasons, I favor playing Real-Time now.
Topic: How can BGA improve Real-Time matchmaking?
Background: It's definitely NOT by paying for premium, as made clear here: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30411 (Why I'll never pay for premium again) ...but someone (yay mturton!) asked the excellent question: "What positive changes would you have them make? I am sure all of us who prefer real-time games would love to hear them."

Argument: So... here are my suggestions:

• Marketing. "What are they supposed to do, run TV adverts saying "Play [game name] on BGA"?" Well... yes! of course they should! Not for specific games as the poster disingenuously suggested, but for real-time play in general... yes! first and foremost. Tell people that BGA is a great place to play Real-Time!

• Review their algorithms. There, I'm awfully ignorant how that works. I can't suggest how, but at least they should test if that's the issue.

• Do away with the Arena system. I understand that some players are competitive to the point that internet fame is worth something to them. I'm not of that opinion. Arena takes away from the pool of potential real-time players I would be happy to play with, and if they're better they win, still getting the laurels to their ELO and getting some of that fame anyways. If that means rebranding BGA because it has the word "Arena", well it's leadership, they can do whatever they want!

• Do away with the fancy/obscure match-making of the new lobby. I really just don't understand the new lobby, and I won't expand here, there are tons of posts about it elsewhere. It just fits under my answer to "What positive changes would you have them make?"

• Marketing! Advertising real-time play should be first, and last!

Open question to fellow players: What are your suggestions?

Cheers,

me

PS: Leadership, please, don't demolish this post too fast. I'm trying to crowdsource ideas to improve BGA. Somehow, I still care.
EN FRANÇAIS: Leadership, par pitié, veuillez ne pas écraser cette discussion trop vite. J'essaie de fomenter des idées pour améliorer BGA. J'ai encore un peu d'espoir.

[nik592]

While I recognise that you prefer real-time games, and that's fine, not everyone does. I have a 3yo and 6yo. I do play real-time on occasion, but all it takes it for one of my kids to have a disaster and I can end up in negative time. For me, turn-based works far better. Yes, I can play when my kids are asleep or something, but in general, that time is spent with my partner, and/or doing things I really can't do when my kids are around (eg. watching adult-level TV/movies). With turn-based gaming, I can take a few turns while waiting for breakfast to cook, or waiting for my kids at school pickup, etc. It fits my life much better. And there are probably other reasons while some prefer turn-based gaming.

I suspect that people who don't play real-time gaming are perfectly aware it exists, they're just not interested. Marketing to them isn't going to achieve much. I'll also say that for some games, turn-based matchmaking can be difficult as well, either taking a long time, or often matching me with the same opponents regularly. Some games are just like that.

As to Arena play, again, I would say there are many who enjoy it. ELO is one thing, but Arena play is different. The other point on that I'd ask is that have you tried playing Arena games, as they're also available real-time, and if you think Arena is taking from the pool of players, then why not join that pool? If you don't care about the Arena rankings, you can just ignore it, but otherwise it's exactly the same as non-Arena play. But again, I suspect there is a pool of players in Arena play who also prefer turn-based play. Removing the Arena is not going to change them into real-time gamers for you.

[KenFin1]

I agree with nik592. Definitely a bonus to have RT and TB options. And also find arena fun, and non-arena fun.

The issue for me is how long it takes to find a match in all games irrespective of arena/non arena or RT vs TB play.

Some arena games in particular (both RT and TB) take forever to find a table. I queued for hours last night without getting a game in rftg. Usually I would get several games in an evening. Last night I managed to get 2 tables started, and 1 abortive one where someone didn't show.

Is it me or is the traditional lobby less busy since this change in the lobby system and the game page towards the end of last year/early this year? There are some games I used to play almost daily, definitely several times a week in both arena and non-arena. Now I struggle to get a single game at any point during the week despite being online.

People can't see open tables as easily, and can't see across multiple games in the same way unless they know how to browse in the old style via play now. If they rely on the game page lobby, which is being pushed as the default, it limits the ability to see tables and jump into them. It makes it harder to discuss things at a table. It makes it harder to invite people and expel people. It makes a lot of things harder.

I don't know if player numbers have dropped, it would be interesting to know stats if they're available, but to me it feels like either the pool of players has got smaller. Or if this isn't the case then the system has been tweaked to the worse as it is taking a lot lot longer to find people to play with, irrespective of game format.

I just got a glut of "you're no longer a guru" messages. No kidding. I can't get games. I'm on here most days. I'm trying to play games. I can't get them.

Not alone, hardly anyone plays Arena, and non-arena can see you wait for several hours to get a table. PI I haven't managed to get a single arena table started, and waits are typically 20-30 mins for a non-arena game. Race for the Galaxy, waits of several hours for tables in arena. All of these have got much worse than they were a few months ago.

[ChiefPointThief]

Agree with a lot of what was said from nik and ken. Taking away arena wouldn’t create more real time games and like nik said just join the pool of arena real time players. There are a few games I play arena because there is always a real time game waiting. On the flip side there are some less popular games that can only go in turn based and I’d rather have the option to play them tb arena than not at all.

[Perduicitte]

Thank you for the thoughtful perspectives!

For Arena play: Aren't the Real-Time & Arena systems in competition for players? I'm unaware that you can both wait for Arena games and Real-Time "Play Now" games at the same time. Can we?

Awareness: I am also certain people are aware that Real-Time play exists on BGA. Unfortunately, I have experienced much frustration with awfully long wait times. which basically made it a "no fun = no value" for me, 'cause I'll wait much longer than I'm ready to wait. I think it's a vicious circle, as people have poor experience waiting for Real-Time that never happens, there's less people trying to play Real-Time, which makes it harder to get matches, more poor experiences, less people, ... that's my argument for marketing, and this whole post, as a matter of fact. Turn the vicious circle into a virtuous circle.

For Real-Time vs Turn-based: I used to prefer Turn-Based because, well, also because of having children! Now they don't want to see me on weekend mornings until we all turn the electronics off, as a family For this discussion though, let's focus on improving Real-Time match-making.

Thanks for the replies, looking forward to more!

me

[Jellby]

Being able to simultaneously queue in Arena and non-Arena games would be an improvement[*]. So would being able to schedule real-time games or keep an open table while you play another real-time game, but I'm afraid those pose practical questions.

[*] I believe you can, or it used to be the case, by opening several browser tabs/windows before queuing.

[ChiefPointThief]

You can open regular tables and then go to arena games but you can’t open more real time tables without leaving arena wait list. I agree that could be fixed. Like jellby said if you open multiple tabs you may be able to do it (Haven’t tried this in awhile) but you shouldn’t have to do that.

[Strode]

You are underestimating the cost of TV adverts. All things considered, not many people out there are interested in these types of games. These aren't popular video games. It would cost a lot of money to bring in few people who want to play real-time games with you. Among those who show up, most would want to play Ticket to Ride or wonder where Risk and Scrabble are.

It's very easy to spend other people's money and just assume marketing will pay for itself.

[Fletcheese]

Getting more players to play niche games is not the responsibility of BGA management. Your best options are to (a) seek out players interested in playing the game you can't find matches for. Post on the game-specific forum here on BGA, join a group, post on reddit, BGG, find a Discord, whatever. If the queue isn't working (normal problem for niche games), then you need to seek people out.

Or (b) play turn-based. But I assume you won't like that.

Making it easier to search both arena and regular queues simultaneously would be a good improvement. Asking BGA to close down additional queues that loads of players use is ridiculous. Asking them to spend money on marketing real-time queues is equally ridiculous.

[Meeplelowda]

Among those who show up, most would want to play Ticket to Ride or wonder where Risk and Scrabble are.

I literally laughed out loud at this. I'm also the user who the OP said was being disingenuous. For the record, I was being sarcastic. But it turns out the OP actually does want BGA to spend money on marketing. Fair enough.