Kingmaking : Does the end justify the means?

[sophie0812]

The reason why I thought I should post this despite the fact the case has been already dealt in the other forum is that I feel a lot of attention has been made on just ‘quitting action’ and not the intention behind it which weights far more significances to the problem. Also there is extra information and fact I would like to share for discussion.

Any content in this post is accessible by all BGA users for fact checks.

Games in question

1) *
2) *


Event overview:

* and * are regular partners on tichu BGA who plays game together (67 games in total). * helped * on two of the games (#* & #*) which she deliberately abandoned the games at the cost of her ELO to protect loss of his ELO on behalf. On the very last game of * after * intervention on the previous one (#*) him and his partner won and his elo shifted from 499 to 502 and finally made to the first expert player on BGA website at 02:33 (GMT) on 17/04/2023.


ELO amendment to be made:

If it weren’t her intervention(s), what will be his actual ELO and how does this reflect on the state of leaderboard of BGA tichu?

1. Recent abandonment(#*)
* (K=26.67 between 12-21 games) 113 + 49.75 = 162.75 ELO
* (K=13.33 for over 21 games) 172 + 21.62 = 193.62 ELO
* (K=13.33 for over 21 games) 458 - 22.12 = 435.88 ELO
* (K=13.33 for over 21 games) 499 - 24.38 = 474.62 ELO

Let alone this game would deduct his ELO from 499 to 475. On average, he gains +3 ELO from each victory hence, he would need to win the next minimum 8 to 9 games consecutively without a single loss in between to reach where he is now, 502 ELO.

Furthermore, one also has to take the other intervention that happened prior this game as well.

2. Previous abandonment (#354196825)
*(K=26.67 between 12-21 games) 130 + 55.60 = 185.2
* (K=13.33 for over 21 games) 409 + 11.18 = 420.2
* (K=13.33 for over 21 games) 464 - 19.15 = 444.85
* (K=13.33 for over 21 games) 474 - 19.81 = 454.19

Discussion

Two losses (roughly adds up to -44 ELO) from where he stands now will not guarantee the expert level let alone the first place in BGA leaderboard (currently * 500 ELO checked on 18/05/23). Therefore, two interventions (WIN-WIN-WIN-LOSE not WIN-WIN-LOSE-LOSE) at very critical times made by her had so much drastic impact on distorting the truth of BGA leaderboard.

In the other forum where * initially flagged her action, her reason for quitting as she stated “…a coincidence that I experienced the mental stress that caused me to quit the game” is not so convincing since this player played over 1,200 games of Tichu in this account alone suggesting she is a very skilful player in BGA and has encountered many more challenging games so far than this particular one(s) she was at before deliberate quitting. Therefore, the explanation such as “I am imperfect” or “I felt it was too much stress and anxiety for me to handle” doesn’t seem to fully justify her critical intervention which helped her partner from reaching expert level on BGA.

Furthermore, she has admitted on the other table chat when using * (which now deleted) casually to her friends during the conversation that she quitted the game (referring to table=* at that time) to protect ELO of *. I think this comment I witnessed is the direct evidence not to mention all these circumstantial evidences (quitting when your partner was the highest in rank e.g. 474/499 ELO) point directly to king-making action. So my question of ‘does the end justify the means?”, No, I do not think so. However, I understand that her original intention of helping her friend was not spiteful or vindictive and she already said on the other forum that she wouldn’t repeat this again (with or without intentions of promoting one’s ELO)

Further action
I sent an email to BGA admin for back-up data on table conversation to find the part where she admitted deliberate action due to ELO protection of her partner as well as requesting them to look at this case objectively for their judgements with the analysis I made.
If there is any part that inaccurately written, please let me know. I can also share the process of how I calculated ELO upon request.

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.

[SEOBOY]

얘 아직도 티츄에 목숨걸고 사나보네;;; 왤케 퀸비야

[cobaltbl27]

Hi Sophie. Cobra and I are friends in real life. I joined Cobra's game as a joke to tease her because she hates playing against me. However, the game got really unfair and one-sided. I felt bad for Cobra and told her I wanted to leave the game because I also didn't like how the game was going. On the other hand, Cobra did not like this idea because she felt that it wasn't fair to me too and decided to quit before I had the chance to. Without a doubt, this action of hers has nothing to do with saving zeezee88's ELO. I just felt like I have to clarify this before you post assumptions to defame my friend. Thank you.

[deejinlondon]

Ahhh the armada rise to defend their friend. Cobalt, nice idea to try and cover for your friend, but she has already admitted twice to quitting to save Zeezee's elo. However, she has since apologized. Maybe, you should choose other games for such fooling around in future as there always two other players in tichu, and it seems unfair on them.

[deejinlondon]

얘 아직도 티츄에 목숨걸고 사나보네;;; 왤케 퀸비야

Translation for others to see.

IMG_20230523_100741.jpg (269.9 KiB) Viewed 1099 times

[cobra_ss]

Despite my reluctance to dwell on this matter, I must address the false accusations against me.

I have recognized and apologized for my poor choice of quitting. Yet, a new forum thread was created to continue harassing me. Enough has been said about it. I am not going to repeat myself and instead attach a screenshot of my conversation with zeezee88 at the material time. Stop flogging a dead horse. Regarding the other game you mentioned, the reason for quitting is unrelated to this situation. I left to prevent my friend cobaltbl27 from quitting due to unbalanced cards. It's irrelevant to our present discussion, so please don't twist my game history to suit your agenda.

Lastly, I have thought long and hard about whether or not I should bring this up, but I must call you out for action. Your partner, *, expressed discomfort with your private messages during a Tichu game- Sharing information about hands via private messages is considered cheating under BGA's rules. I implore you to cease such despicable behaviour and reflect on your own conduct before passing judgment on others.

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.
Posting screenshots of private chats is not appropriate.

[--NATI--]

nice screenshots xD

[sophie0812]

BGA 답변


1. Cheating during the game (*)

Sorry for everyone if I disappoint with my careless behaviour of discussing cards during the game. No excuse - I accept my fault! In my defence, “call low number” was said after she majong-wished 5 and left me wondering why she did not call either 2 or 3. However, there is no excuse for discussing card before the game was over. My apology. I played total 2 games with her (*; one loss and one victory). For those who are curious, I leave the reference below so feel free to watch the games.

- #*
- #*


2. * cheating history
During the conversation I had with this player (reflect yourself - deleted now), she encountered suspicious behaviours from opponents so her partner and she also cheated to combat cheaters. By doing so, she also recommended I do the same in the similar situation (see attachment). I am not the most moral person for raising this issue but the real irony I found in this situation is a cheater calls out another cheater of cheating? Furthermore, if I am a cheater, does that make her less of a king-maker?


3. Back to king-making speculation
From the screenshot of conversation with *, I understood two things :
- Kingmaking action was not plotted prior to the game
- * has nothing to do with her decision on quitting

So far, she has not made any justification in her response to this forum other than expressing her reluctance of answering question directly and focused on accusation of my cheating instead. This and the last forum page have received nearly 3000 views, I think more structured answer other than “I am imperfect” would make sense to dismiss initial allegation raised by others.

I came to king-making conclusion based on two facts below :

- Her conversation on table chat where she mentioned her action was due to protection of *’s ELO
- Circumstantial evidence that she quitted the game when her partner was the highest-ranked-player (at the time of game, 499, No.1 on BGA Tichu leaderboard)

Therefore, my doubt is well reasonably placed. So, I strongly recommend that she focuses statement based on facts above.

4. * joining the table:
Four player (whether * was messing around or not) agreed to have a game by pressing “accept” button. This means that all four players are equally responsible for the outcome of game, correct? If neither of the parties has done cheating, I do not fully understand why she felt pressured to take 100% responsibility on behalf of * OR *. Also, why is it *’s responsibility to lose in favour of the other team when he was winning legitimately? Biased high card distribution on BGA Tichu isn’t something new so don’t know why after playing +1200 games of tichu does she find it difficult to cope.

5. Invasion of privacy by *
Ever since I posted this, weirdly I heard from others she has been asking people for the screenshot of the conversation I had with them which might or might not be all relevant to her. I understand her prime goal at the moment is to dismiss my public accusation by discrediting me and having my word lose credibility in BGA. Attacking me personally by searching every flaw that she secretly gathered behind my back without my knowledge is not acceptable. Please stop this disgusting behaviour as I find this invasive, unpleasant and threatening.

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.

[SX70]

* did not text me "after" I made the mahjong wish; instead, you cunningly delivered your message "before" . Moreover, when you called GT, your hand consisted of 3, the dog and a few other singles you had to throw away. Consequently, you needed me to call a 2 so that you could discard the 3. Your private message, "Call low number," made partner realize you had a smaller number(s) to discard.

Regardless of whether this occurred before or after, it is evident that sending messages to your partner constitutes unequivocal cheating and a gross violation of Tichu's ethical standards.

* is your supposed "friend," was our opponent. Are you even aware that you cheated on your own friend? It raises serious doubts about how you play against random opponents and whether you employ the same tactics to achieve victories with your other fixed partners.

Lastly, I would like to clarify that * did not ask me to send screenshots, as you falsely stated in your forum. I sent her the screenshot of my own volition because I did not approve of your behaviour in directing how I play during the game, and I sent it to her as proof of what happened during the game.

Please cease your lies as it is immoral.

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call players out by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.