Make your plan - with examples

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Phoxtrot
Posts: 338
Joined: 03 January 2012, 20:55

Make your plan - with examples

Post by Phoxtrot »

Example 1:
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=382319204
https://imgur.com/ky2bwSF

So you are third player and get to play your first two turns in a row.
What do you do and what's your long term plan ?

-----------------
I could have picked the Maya and the handcrafting+workshop tech tile. Second civ would probably have been an annexation (not 100% sure) and 3rd civ would likely have been a rise late in the game that cannot be predicted at the start of the game. Maya's power + workshop (and writing) would have allowed to make some points with Culture at reasonable cost.

----

Instead, I picked Nubia with the intention of keeping it as main civ until the end.
I took the masonry tile right away. Intent being to make points through "build"
In fact, I chose Nubia (+ masonry) over Maya (+ handcrafting) in part because I had never yet gone right away for a "build" strategy...
And in part because I didn't fancy winning those late wars with one of the opponents having already taken the Romans. Nubia felt safer, especially against less experienced opponents.

Second turn I annexed Malay for the 3 gold and to remove one of the 4workers civs though it didn't matter all that much which one I annexed.

I took Mining on the first round to not lose the war (and for the -1$ on build)
2nd turn I took Sailing and gathered money before "Farm" went away because I needed a lot of money
This way, on round 3 I could get the two techs I couldn't wait to get: "Masonry and Fortification" and started making points with my first "build" action.
All the money from round 2 allowed me to do that without annexing a civ on round 3 for just the money as I knew that I would later want to annex to recover a worker either to counter the event or to recover from a wonder.
I couldn't foresee what I would that after round 3 at the start of the game, that depended too much on which civs would be available and how much money I would have thanks to people doing "Trade".

-----------------------------
AoC is a game where you need to :
# always think at least one turn in advance
# know how you hope to eventually make points
# have an idea of how long you are going to keep your current civ as main
# have an objective/idea in terms of how many workers you are going to work with
Though, of course, plans can change.
Last edited by Phoxtrot on 07 June 2023, 11:00, edited 3 times in total.
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Renedekart87
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Re: Make your plan - with examples

Post by Renedekart87 »

Well played, it's strange why the opponents didn't take additional technologies.
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Phoxtrot
Posts: 338
Joined: 03 January 2012, 20:55

Re: Make your plan - with examples

Post by Phoxtrot »

Example 2:

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=384432684
https://imgur.com/qcwRyof

This is another beast.
First observations:
  1. there are only 2 wars including one on the last turn but there are also 2 forced losses: so it's almost impossible to keep the same civ all along but winning the wars isn't all that important. Now, because 3 of those potential losses are regrouped in time, you will almost certainly rise a civ on round #4 and this will impact the initial choices.
  2. there are multiple nice civs, so I thought at the time that I would have preferred to play 3rd. The timing is however potentially quite good for round 3 and 4 as I will play last before the war and first on the round where everyone might rise a civ. (In retrospect, being 1st was probably for the best)
  3. There is a clear "pay gap" in the timeline: no money to be had from actions on round 3 and little money as well on rounds 4 et 5. Some of the available civs can reduce costs but none of them can really give you money beyond the coins on them.
  4. One of the opponents is #1 ELO, don't count on opponents making mistakes
So the choices:
  • Nubia is nice (see 1st Example) but unless I can manage to keep it as main, it will at best really serve twice. Still, Nubia + geography and maybe Machu Picchu is tempting but I don't really see it working. And a rest on round 1 or 2 is problematic given how early "Build" is and given that you would want to get Geography very quickly for both "Build" and "Trade". So this is one of the cases where the minutia of planning the early rounds really helped to reject an otherwise nice looking civ.
  • Egypt is nice with 4 workers and probably better than the other 4W civ (Harapa). The one shield and good timing for round 3 gives you a chance to win the first war but you cannot really plan on it and you want a early wonder. This could be a wonder on round 2 and 3 or a wonder on round 1 then annex Nubia if it's still there and build a second wonder on round 3. So yeah, winning the 1st war doesn't seem important here. One side problem with Egypt is that I have little experience with it and, given the opposition, this is not really a game to try-out new things.
  • Khitan should win the first war easily given everything said above. But do you really care ? Khitan seems too generic a pick
  • This leaves Babylon with its mere 2 workers
--------------

So I went for Babylon.
And I assuredly want a special tech tile on the first round.
3 of them can be useful here, it's clearly not a board for Archery however.
Looking back, Philosophy is tempting, but it reduces income rather than increase it so I'm still happy with my choice as I went for Cartography+Geography. This will give both money and points through "Trade". (Given the board and currently available civs, Cartography+Geography is also the only pick that could clearly help the opponents.)


I'll get 3 free techs with Babylon greatly reducing the spending needed.

I still need a way to make points, Trade+Cartography and a obvious early "Science" won't be enough. I'll be able to use "Culture" earlier than anybody but only for 2 points so boff. I'll probably have to mix some wonder(s) and some "Build" and maybe a culture somewhere. I'll almost certainly want "Engineering" at some point, preferably before I do any "Build".

I will annex a civ on round 2, probably partly based on whatever annoys the other players the most (especially the top ELO guy if it comes to that). This is not an attitude "by default", just a result of none of the available civs really standing out as annexations for this game's strategy.

But I will be short on workers to collect money on round 2 and I want to do a wonder in round 3 just in time for the planned rise at round 4.
So all in all, I think that the winning play on round 1 is .... "REST" (after buying the tech tile) and learn Cartography at end of turn. And I'll get Geography and Science on round 2. "Sailing" is tempting too but I chose to go for early science anyway.

Think about it, "Rest" costs you 2 actions in round one but those actions would have been "trade" and "research".
In exchange, you get 2 coins without giving a coin to anyone else and you get an extra worker to use on round 2 and 3 where they will be more useful than in round 1 thanks in part to Babylon's free civs at end of round 1 and 2.

-----------------
The lessons...
  • Plan ahead (as always)
  • Check for "pay gaps" and a way to remedy them if possible
  • If there is a round with a possible or certain loss of 1 worker immediately followed by a round with a possible or certain loss of 2 workers, that second round is an articulation point in the game and you should almost always expects "Rises" on that round and have a before and a after strategy.
  • Sometimes a round 1 or round 2 Rest is the best action. It usually requires planning to see it.
Last edited by Phoxtrot on 10 April 2024, 19:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Phoxtrot
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Joined: 03 January 2012, 20:55

Re: Make your plan - with examples

Post by Phoxtrot »

Renedekart87 wrote: 02 June 2023, 14:38 Well played, it's strange why the opponents didn't take additional technologies.
Well, India wasn't visible when they took their first turn so yes, they could have taken "Handcrafting" but it wasn't an obvious pick by any mean. They could of course have gone for my strategy but Rome and to a lesser extent Inca also made sense.

On round two, only the "Astronomy" tile could still be taken and it wasn't a good pick with "Farm" already on the way out.
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Phoxtrot
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Re: Make your plan - with examples

Post by Phoxtrot »

Example 3:
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=385833684

I'm not gonna post a screenshot but you can do a replay from my perspective and stop of the critical points.
First point of decision: #4
I'm second player and first player just made 7 VPs on their first round.

Generic observations:
  • There is no pay gap (see a previous example)
  • There are 3 wars but one is immediate with one of the opponents stuck at 1 defense and the other two are on the last 2 round (a war on the last round is less important because it can only ever cost 1 action). And with the Earthquake (worker loss) event on round 5, a civ rise on round 5 is relatively likely. On the other hand, conquest showing up on round 5 can be an incentive to be at the military top.
  • I'll play last on round 5 and 1st on round 6 which is probably for the best with this setup. Sure raising a civ last on round 5 is not top but the play order probably makes using Conquest easier and it helps with the event on round 6 and with a possible last wonder on round 6 as well.
For the available civs:
  • Italy: Culture is too far away to justify Italy (and special tech Geography won't help you as it comes with the loss of Writing and Education)
  • Vietnam is sub-par because there is no pay gap
  • Rome can make sense but it probably means not annexing a civ on round 2 and therefore having a bit less money available early on. See also observation above about the wars.
  • Egypt: same first remark as Rome. Now, it might actually be a good spot for Egypt with the Wheel tech and the Great pyramid but as I have said before, I'm not really at ease with Egypt as a strategy. Build in second position on the strip is also probably a bit too early for Egypt
  • Carthage: Once you look at it, it's an obvious choice. Not only do you not want to let the 3rd player take it for 6 or 9 gold; it's also very good for me because Cartography+Geography is available and Trade is very well situated on the timeline.
So I picked Carthage and immediately bought the Cartography+Geography tile, did a double hunt (because 2VP) and researched Mining to be certain to survive the 1st war.
The idea is to raise or annex a civ on round 2 to have 4 workers.
I'll probably make 10VPs from using Trade and the placement of trade means that Geography can wait for quite a while.
I'll probably raise a civ on round 5, it's far from certain but I certainly want to stay at 2 civs to keep it an option.
I don't really know what else I will do yet.
------
Second point of decision: #24
I actually fumbled this one.

2nd Civ choice:
  • I can rise Germania or Harappa or annex one of the other 3.
  • There would have been a case to be made for Germania if both opponents had had money. But not only does one of the opponents have zero gold, they are also both unlikely to rise a civ just now.
  • I went for Harappa because I didn't know where I would make points besides Trade but I very clearly should have annexed Italy. I had to know that I was going to end up with 6 techs or more so Italy was 3 points and 3 gold. Sure, it is tempting to rise a 4 workers civ when your current civ has no special effect at all anymore for being active but that shouldn't have blinded me.
The play of actions is relatively simple, I want to learn Cartography, Sailing, Mathematics and Science in that order because Geography can wait and I might go for even more techs If I want to win the late wars. And I obviously want to max VPs from Trade.

-------------------
3rd point of decision: #67
Here comes the analysis paralysis.
How much points can I make with the last 2 rounds? And in case of multiple options for the same VP count, how many workers can I keep.
I don't need to factor in the Great Debate event in my count since those 2 points are mine and mine alone no matter what I do.
A quick thought should show that only annexing Minoan (for the VP) or Vietnam (for the gold) makes sense.

option 1:
annex Minoan
Round 5: 4 workers: Minoans 3VPs, Trade (2VP), R Engineeering , R Gun powder (3VP in total for RR), Fish , end round with 4 gold
Round 6: 4 workers: Trade (2VP), Wonder Colosseum 6VP (3VP+1 from engineering + 2 because I have 7 defense), Conquest 3VP (2+1 from Gun powder), Fish (useless)
Total 19VP and 2 workers left

option 2:
Round 5: 4 workers: Minoans 3VPs, Trade (2VP), R Engineeering , R Gun powder (3VP in total for RR), Conquest (3VP), end round with 2 gold
Round 6: 3 workers: Trade (2VP), Conquest (3VP) , Culture (2VP)
Total 18 VP

option 3:
Round 5: 4 workers: Minoans 3VPs, Trade (2VP), R Gun powder (1VP), Conquest (3VP), Fish, end round with 9 gold
Round 6: 3 workers: Trade (2VP), Wonder Colosseum 5VP (3+2 because I have 7 defense), a) Conquest (3VP) or b) R Engineering 3VP (1+1 from Minoan +1 for wonder)
Total 19 VP, option 3a with 1 worker left, option 3b with 2 workers left

I analyzed a few other options that weren't as good essentially because there is only one good wonder so using Vietnam to be able to build 2 wonders wasn't better.

In the end, I went for option 1 (3b is essentially equivalent).
(In truth, option 1 was like the fourth I analyzed)

So I won this one but I was quite lucky that Minoan showed up and no civ showed with a good +1VP to culture or something else that would have benefitted the opponents more.
Last edited by Phoxtrot on 05 August 2023, 21:39, edited 2 times in total.
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Phoxtrot
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Re: Make your plan - with examples

Post by Phoxtrot »

Example 4
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=398744987
Tournament game against 2 real good players.

As with the previous example, if you want to follow, do a replay from my perspective.

First point of decision: #6

I'm second player.
A few observations:
  • There will be 3 wars and the first player has already taken the tech tile with War Elephant.
  • I'll be 3rd player on two of the rounds preceding a war which is rather nice
  • There is no pay gap; Trade and Fish can both be used 3 times
  • Hunt is in 3rd position on the strip with no other $ action available for the first 2 rounds which means that we might want to delay Research to make a few VPs with Hunt. But our eventual 3rd/4th worker would then have to be used for Wonders or Build.
Tech tiles:
  • I could get the Fortification tile but it is costly to setup and it means renouncing Culture right away. And we have other options to defend ourselves.
  • Philosophy is always nice but it means here losing a lot of money on Trade and Fish
  • Handcrafting is ok but Workshop on the same tile is useless in this game
All in all, I see no strong reason to go for one.

Choice of first civ is delicate:
  • Rome offers good defense and 4 workers. With Rome, my first turn would probably be Hunt-Hunt-Build
  • Mongolia has an even better defense and 3 workers. First turn could be Hunt-Hunt-Nothing/Research or Hunt/Exploit/Wonder
  • Carthage is there and I don't like to leave it to the 3rd player for 6 or 9 golds, especially when the 3rd player is a very good player. If I take it, I can go Hunt-Hunt-Wonder on the first round. And Carthage also almost certainly means 3 free VPs with Trade.
With Plague on round 2, it is very tempting to go for a wonder on round 1 and rise another civ on round 2.
This means Carthage.

If 3rd player goes Mongolia + Rome, I'll probably just abandon the wars unless 1st player doesn't go high on defense. Play order before the wars and the extra worker on round 5 makes this possibility way less terrifying than in most games with 3 or 4 wars.

So Carthage, Hunt, Hunt, Wonder
Now which wonder do you take ?

I took Chichen Itza as I didn't think that taking Angkor without the bonus was a good idea (I still have a chance to build it later) and I expected that I would be able to make at least 1 extra VP via Farming.

------------------------
Before my next turn, Britain and Korea (still with the bug) are revealed and taken and that is two bad news.

2nd point of decision, round 2: #26
Let's be real, Mongolia with 5 gold on it and 3 defense just before a war is too tempting so I take it.
And I can go Hunt-Hunt but then what ?
  1. I don't really like to research as it means not getting points from Hunt on round 3.
  2. I could waste one action but that isn't appealing either
  3. Let's backtrack a second, could we just "Rest" ? Nope, that is just horrible here.
  4. Exploit ? That would mean rising a civ afterward but that is not a problem here. There are 4 adequate civs to rise and the Masonry tile is still available if I decide to rise Nubia or Aksum. Mongolia's power is unlikely to be very useful but it could be useful as I play first in the 6th round when Conquest appear. And removing one worker even for just one turn from the player who took Britain can be a good idea
  5. Wonder ? That means rising Nubia on the next round and I'll have enough money to get a 3rd wonder on round 3 (!) or 4. But after that, I'll probably be unable to survive the last two wars. I think this options might require a 3rd wonder on round 3 with rest on round 4 if I lose that war as expected.
This being said, option a isn't that bad: I rather like to learn Mathematics now and keep my options open.
I can then annex Nubia (see my point above removing a worker from the Britain player on the last round).
So I did just that:
  • Round 2: Rise Mongolia, Hunt , Hunt, Research Mathematics
  • Round 3: Annex Nubia , trade, hunt, wonder Angkor Wat with bonus (because that one WILL otherwise be taken by someone else before my next turn and I cannot afford to give it to the player with Britain, that is a Big No.)
--------------------
3rd point of decision, round 4: #51

I went Trade, Fish, Research Science.
I hesitated to research Engineering instead as I do expect to build a 3rd wonder

I should probably have planned my round 5 and 6 at this moment but in retrospect, I don't think it would actually have mattered.
------------------------------------------
Last point of decision, round 5: #67

The corruption event is annoying.
It hardly registered in my brain before that moment and it was quite annoying.

So I went Trade, Fish, Research Gunpowder, Research Engineering
(in part because Trade, Farm, Research Gunpowder would make me lose 3 gold to corruption)
This means the Britain player gets to lose 3 gold rather than me which is for the best.

And on round 6, I want to Conquest and do a last Wonder.
This will make it impossible for the player with Britain to get another wonder and the Conquest VPs are too nice anyway.
But there is the catch: I cannot do Conquest - Farm - Wonder, that is one gold short.
So I have to go for Conquest - Fish - Exploit - Wonder and I do not get the Free VP from Farming with Chichen Itza and I know at this point that I will lose the game by 1 point against player with Britain. I did all I could to make his last turn miserable but it was not enough.

So, of course, I now get to wonder if I could have had one more gold but I don't really see a solution in part because of the Corruption event.
But yes, I would probably have won if I had taken the Colossus rather Chichen Itza on round 1.
If you saw that Colossus was better at that time, congrats, I shall fear you now.

Option d or e on round 2 would have lead to a very different game and I'm not sure if that would have been better or not.
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