red thumbs system

[warco07]

I believe the red thumbs system in Board Game Arena does not completely reflect the behaviour of the players, but rather serves as a means for the losers to take revenge on the winners. While the red thumbs system may appear to be an indicator of poor sportsmanship, I firmly believe it is an unreliable measure of player behaviour.

Firstly, the red thumbs system is subjective and prone to personal biases. Different players have varying expectations and standards when it comes to sportsmanship and gameplay etiquette. A thumbs-down may be given simply due to a difference in playing style or strategic choices, rather than genuine unsportsmanlike conduct. This subjectivity leads to a skewed representation of player behaviour, with some using the red thumbs solely as a means to vent frustration or seek retribution for their loss, rather than an accurate assessment of their opponent's behaviour.

Furthermore, the red thumbs system lacks context and transparency. In Board Game Arena, players are not required to provide specific reasons for giving a thumbs-down. This anonymity allows disgruntled individuals to abuse the system, utilizing it as a tool for revenge or personal vendettas. Without knowing the exact reasons behind the red thumbs, it becomes difficult to distinguish between genuine instances of unsportsmanlike behaviour and subjective grievances.

Moreover, the act of giving red thumbs itself can be influenced by the emotional state of the player. Losing a game can lead to frustration and disappointment, causing some individuals to impulsively give a thumbs-down out of spite, rather than objectively evaluating their opponent's behaviour. In this way, the red thumbs system becomes a tool for emotional release rather than an accurate reflection of player conduct.

In addition, the lack of consequences or repercussions for misusing the red thumbs system further undermines its credibility. Players who misuse the system face no penalties or accountability for their actions. This lack of accountability encourages its misuse and diminishes its effectiveness as a reliable measure of player behaviour.

To address these concerns, it is important for Board Game Arena to implement a more robust and objective system for evaluating player behaviour. This could include implementing a feedback mechanism that requires players to provide specific reasons for giving a thumbs-down and ensuring the transparency of this feedback to all participants. Additionally, considering a weighting system that takes into account the reputation and track record of players could help provide a more accurate representation of their behaviour.

In conclusion, the red thumbs system in Board Game Arena does not completely reflect the behaviour of players but rather serves as a platform for losers to seek revenge on winners. The subjective nature, lack of context and transparency, emotional influence, and absence of consequences all contribute to its unreliability. By implementing a more objective and accountable system, we can ensure that player behaviour is accurately assessed, fostering a fair and sportsmanlike environment for all participants.

[Blacktango]

Hi, there are two kinds of red thumbs.

The private red thumb

You just tell BGA that you never want to play with that player again. You don't need to give any reason, but it only matters to you and the player. You will never meet at the same table again.
The issue with this, IMO, is that you don't have a list of all the players you gave a red thumb to, nor the date you gave it (so you can't undo it in the player profile, after enough time has passed).

The public red thumb

You tell BGA about the player's bad sportsmanship. (I think it also adds a private red thumb at the same time.)
If only one player in a game gave you this kind of red thumb, I don't think it really affects your karma, and they can't do it more than once because you won't be able to meet again.
The issue with these, IMO is like you said the poor feedback to the targeted player. If they really don't know why they got red thumbed, they won't be able to change their attitude.

There is another thing that is different from the red thumb: the player report. This feature is really more punitive, and no one should be able to abuse it without being punished themselves. I'm pretty sure it requires you to provide evidence (link to a table with racist comments in the chat, for example), and/or not be the only one reporting the player.

[warco07]

Hi and thanks for your reply, however, karma can be influenced by a certain amount of red thumbs, it becomes even more crucial to address the concerns regarding the system's potential for misuse and the lack of clear feedback for targeted players. The impact on a player's karma, which affects their overall reputation, makes it essential to ensure the accuracy and fairness of red thumb judgments.

To maintain the integrity of the karma system, it is crucial to implement measures that reduce the likelihood of unjustified or retaliatory red thumbs. This could include requiring players to provide specific reasons for giving a red thumb, ensuring transparency in the process, and allowing players to view and respond to red thumbs received.

Additionally, it would be beneficial to have a mechanism in place for reviewing and addressing disputed red thumbs. This could involve a fair and impartial investigation process where players can present their cases or provide evidence to challenge red thumbs they believe to be unjust or inaccurate. By incorporating such mechanisms, the system can help prevent the misuse of red thumbs and promote a more reliable assessment of player behavior.

Ultimately, the goal should be to create a balanced and fair environment that encourages good sportsmanship and discourages the misuse of the red thumbs system. By addressing the concerns raised and implementing appropriate improvements, Board Game Arena can ensure that the karma system accurately reflects a player's behaviour while minimizing the potential for abuse or revenge-based red thumbs.

[Blacktango]

It would be interesting to get feedback from a larger number of players.

From my perspective, the red current thumb system doesn't affect your karma that much. Unless about 5 people (I don't know the actual number) all give you a red thumb at the same time, your karma will never go below 80, and then after a few games you'll be able to get it back up to 100.

Then I don't think it's worth investigating this feature in depth, which would mean a lot of for the BGA team. Some others feature seem more important to me.

[warco07]

Thanks again for your reply, however the rules are :
If 10% of players you played against give you red thumbs your reputation drops to 60%.
If you have 20% red thumbs it drops to 30%

Indeed, an important aspect to consider is the potential impact on expert players who consistently maintain a 100% reputation, demonstrating good sportsmanship by never insulting or quitting games. It becomes disheartening for these players to face a significant drop of 40% in their hard-earned reputation due to the red thumbs received from a mere 10 out of 100 games, especially when the motivations behind those red thumbs are not confirmed or substantiated. Especially if the red thumbs system primarily serves as a means for losers to take revenge on winners, it can create an unfair dynamic that penalizes players for their success rather than promoting a balanced and supportive gaming environment. The reputation system should aim to reflect not only sportsmanship but also skill and achievement.

For these exemplary players, it seems unfair and discouraging to experience such a substantial reputation loss based on unverified or potentially unjustified red thumbs. This scenario emphasizes the need for a more comprehensive evaluation of the red thumbs system, one that ensures accurate and accountable assessments of player behaviour.

While there may be other features that are also important to consider, it's crucial to continuously evaluate and enhance the platform based on user feedback and the goal of providing the best possible experience for the player community. By investing the necessary resources into investigating and improving the red thumbs system, Board Game Arena can promote fairness, accountability, and a more enjoyable gaming atmosphere for everyone involved.

[Jest Phulin]

There is a minor check in place already. Public red thumbs cannot be given out without giving a certain number of green thumbs. So while a small group may target a single player, they will need to spread a much larger number of green thumbs around to afford the red thumbs.

And while private red thumbs do not have this restriction, they do not affect the karma of the recipient.

[warco07]

Thank you for highlighting the existing checks in the red thumbs system. The requirement to give a certain number of green thumbs before being able to give a public red thumb does provide a level of balance and discourages targeted negative actions against a single player. It helps ensure that players distribute green thumbs more widely, promoting fairness in the assessment of player behaviour.

Regarding private red thumbs, it is true that they do not directly affect the recipient's karma. However, it's important to recognize that the lack of restriction on public red thumbs raises concerns about their potential misuse and the impact on player experiences. Without any validation or requirement for proof, there is a risk that players may use private red thumbs purely out of spite or without justified reasons.

To address this issue, it would be valuable for Board Game Arena to consider implementing measures that ensure the validity and fairness of both private and public red thumbs. This could involve introducing a mechanism to verify or substantiate the reasons behind red thumbs or providing an avenue for players to appeal or challenge red thumbs that they believe to be unjustified.

By actively addressing the concerns related to the impact of red thumbs without valid proof, Board Game Arena can work towards refining the reputation system and creating a more reliable and trustworthy environment for players. Striving for fairness and accountability will contribute to a healthier community and promote positive interactions among players.

[Meeplelowda]

This could involve introducing a mechanism to verify or substantiate the reasons behind red thumbs or providing an avenue for players to appeal or challenge red thumbs that they believe to be unjustified.

What vast pool of money is going to be used to pay for this? I'd rather they direct resources toward reducing server lag that people have been posting about in the Discussion forum. And there does not need to be any verification of private red thumbs. Someone can give a private red thumb just because someone makes an annoying post on the forum leading to the conclusion that they never want to have anything to do with them.

[warco07]

You make a valid point regarding the allocation of resources and the importance of addressing server lag issues, which have been a concern for some players. It's essential for the Board Game Arena team to prioritize improvements that directly impact the overall gameplay experience and ensure smooth and lag-free gameplay for all users.

Regarding private red thumbs, I understand your perspective that they serve as a way for individual players to express their preferences and choose not to engage with certain individuals based on personal experiences or interactions. There may not be a need for extensive verification in this context, as the decision is subjective and based on individual opinions.

However, the main focus of the discussion has been on the fairness and impact of public red thumbs, which have the potential to affect a player's reputation within the community. The concern raised is that without proper validation or proof, public red thumbs can be misused or given out of spite, leading to an inaccurate representation of a player's behaviour or achievements.

By ensuring the fairness and accuracy of public red thumbs, Board Game Arena can address the concerns raised by players and maintain a reputation system that accurately reflects a player's conduct. This would involve implementing measures that encourage players to provide specific reasons with evidence when giving public red thumbs, mitigating the risk of unwarranted reputation loss and fostering a more accountable and supportive gaming environment.

Striking a balance between addressing server-related issues and refining the reputation system is crucial. By actively considering and incorporating feedback from the community, Board Game Arena can work towards creating a platform that delivers an optimal gaming experience while promoting fair play and positive interactions among players.

[warco07]

Again I've been penalized due to red thumbs.
I rarely chat and when I do I am very polite, however, again I've been accused of aggressive behaviour.
I've been winning a lot lately and I am convince that the red thumbs system in Board Game Arena does not completely reflect the behaviour of the players, but rather serves as a means for the losers to take revenge on the winners.