Where are definitions of the conventions?

[LouMamou]

When I set up my first BGA Hanabi game, I was asked to specify my conventions. I was given these options:
Standard
Finesse
Hat-guessing
Logical Leftism
Closest Friend
Secret Garden
Conventional Leftism
Chop Focus

I searched awhile for an explanation, to try to match my playing style with one of these choices, but found nothing very helpful. After several more hours (!) of searching, I've found a few posts that explain some of them (like Hat-Guessing and Closest Friend) but not all of them.

I have mostly played on Hanab.live and thought my assumptions/conventions were fairly Standard. I definitely use finesses, but I also use chop-focus. But BGA would only let me choose ONE of these options. I have NO idea which of these is closest to what I'm used to playing on Hanab.live with the H-group conventions.

I'm baffled that BGA forces you to choose among these 8 options without ANY explanation of what you are choosing among. Can someone help? Is there a (brief) explanation of each of these options posted somewhere? Does anyone know which option would best fit the basic H-group conventions (like maybe level 5 or 6)? I'm thinking Chop Focus or Finesse, but that's just a shot in the dark.

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this.

[Romain672]

Hello,
I did a post about conventions systems that I just updated, you can read it here: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26863 .

Yeah what propose bga isn't great, but most players play finesse anyway. That have at least the advantage to make people wonder what they mean.


And since came from hgroup, I suggest you to read my document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vzg ... Mlyhc/edit and specifiquely:

If you only know hgroup’s conventions, I recommend: 4°), 6°), 14°), II], IX], XVI], XIX], XXI], A}, E}, G}, I}, Q} and after.
- 2 saves are on in 2 players, but off at 3+ (see 4°)),
- ‘Chop management’ has a lot more value since 3-bluffs are off (see IX], A}, G}),
- Chop focus is off and you always save cards with number and not with color (see 6°)),
- The 'Information lock' principle is off (you want to be able to clue a non-clueable card on chop)(see XV]),
- The focus on the 'brand new card introduced' is off (see XVIII]),
- 4-double bluff (or 3-double bluff) is off (see P} for saw what we decided in 2b group, but with randoms players, it’s undefined),
- And all of the complicated moves: ‘not logical’ (3-bluffs, ejections, 5-save, 5ce, layered finesse...) are off

But feel free to read from the start of page 3 since you didn't got an high level with hgroup.

Love how links which lead to others links can give you maybe a full day of reading, ahah.

[LouMamou]

Thank you Romain, I did find your post when I was searching for information. But your post (above) did not mention the BGA convention options of Finesse or Chop Focus, and those looked like the most logical for H-group conventions.

I also read your detailed explanation document and all of it made sense to me, but are you saying that other BGA players use these conventions in the way you describe? Everything from H-group (maybe up to level 8) except 3-bluffs?

I was most confused by your statement that chop-focus is off on BGA, and that you play from the left even if the chop is one of the clued cards. Is that how most people play on BGA? Does this mean that chop focus would be "on" if I selected "Chop Focus" as my convention when setting up the game?

Much appreciation to you for all the time you have spent on this!

It would be nice if BGA had a convention option for "H-group" or at least had a way for new-to-BGA Hanabi players to know what kind of convention to select when setting up a game.

Thank you again!

[Romain672]

your post (above) did not mention the BGA convention options of Finesse or Chop Focus, and those looked like the most logical for H-group conventions.

Because it's some concepts and are not linked with a convention set. Both are explained at the top of bga and hgroup's document.

So first chop is the rightmost unclued card.
Chop focus refers to the focus of the clue, which card you assume you gained the most information on.
On bga which play without chop focus, when you receive a red clue x-r-x-r first turn, it's assumed to be focus leftmost by default. So you got x-r1-x-r.
On hgroup which play with chop focus, with that same clue, it's assumed since it touch the chop to be focus on the chop. So you got x-r-x-r1.
Bga play with some chop focus with saves. If you receive a 4 clue: x-4-x-4, with a r4 in the discard pile, if from both players pov, your rightmost 4 can be critical (so can be per example r4), you should assume by deafult to have a critical card in chop. (and in nearly all cases, you just have it)
On referentiel sieve, you make the focus being an adjacent card of the touched card, so you got there a third way to focus that red clue: play-r-x-r. It doesn't have a name on my knowledge.

Some finesses seem to be fully logical. Like if your next player got a 2 saved and previously clued with 2 as x-x-x-r(2), and r1 is on stack, if you clue red on r3 to your second next player, it's going from your next player's pov be assumed to be r2. So it will bomb. So to prevent the bomb, it look logical to try to find r2.
And here r2 should be already clued before.
If now your remove that 2 saved, in bga and hgroup it's assumed to be in your finesse position (usually your slot 1). So you blindly play slot 1.
That's call a finesse.
Reverse finesse are when that r2 is after the clued player.
Self finesse are when a player receive a (number?) clue which should be a play (can't be a save) but none of those numbers are playable. So you play your own finesse position to try to find r2.
Bluff is when the played card as r2 is not r2 but is another playable card.

I also read your detailed explanation document and all of it made sense to me, but are you saying that other BGA players use these conventions in the way you describe? Everything from H-group (maybe up to level 8) except 3-bluffs?

So first there is lots of difference even in the low level of hgroup, in my previous post here I tell you the main difference. So my previous post is about bga.
And yes I'm really confident on it.
But like color saves are a thing in hgroup and not in bga, it's another main difference.

I was most confused by your statement that chop-focus is off on BGA, and that you play from the left even if the chop is one of the clued cards. Is that how most people play on BGA? Does this mean that chop focus would be "on" if I selected "Chop Focus" as my convention when setting up the game?

In theory yes.
In practice, many players came from automatic lobby which make them join games even if they don't read/don't agree on the settings.
So if you want to play with it (be ready to wait longer) but explain what is going on at the start of the game.

It would be nice if BGA had a convention option for "H-group" or at least had a way for new-to-BGA Hanabi players to know what kind of convention to select when setting up a game.

Many players which want to play hgroup doesn't play on bga. So I'm not sure it would be good.

[Blacktango]

Hanabi's development on BGA is on standby, so no more releases.
I think the possibility for the developer to add descriptions to each game option is quite new on BGA, and it was not possible when the game was developed.

This would be quite useful to add it, or even to remove most of these options, IMO.

[LouMamou]

Thanks so much for your responses and detailed replies. They have been very helpful!

[Sammy McSam]

I have put together explanations for each of the available convention options in my draft Help page, each with references. If anyone has any corrections or references to add, please let me know.

[LouMamou]

Thanks Sammy McSam. Is it possible to play both Chop Focus and Finesse?

[Blacktango]

The chop focus convention allows finesses, but I think, with some restrictions and specificities (e.g. a 5 clue in early game is considered as a stall clue and not a finesse).
So if you selsct Chop focus convention on your table (and find players who know this convention ) this should be ok.

[orgle]

Re: chop focus when multiple cards are tagged by a number clue

We use this when it's clear that the leftmost card could have been clued earlier before the rightmost tagged card reached the chop. The logic is that you could have simply waited until the chop card was discarded, but you chose to clue it now for a reason.

It generally comes into play in the later game, when you're only looking for 1-2 cards of that number. If the same clue was given early on (and the card couldn't be unique), I'd still assume leftmost playable, as you probably wanted to save that chop card in addition to the clued leftmost card.

I don't know the proper name for playing chop focus only in specific situations, or how to better clarify the nuance of when it comes into play (if you normally play leftmost), but it's come in handy (and been read correctly) a few times over the last month.