Board Game Arena

It is very convenient that you can set yourself to automatically spend VP for power. However, the following should be implemented:

If you have passed, and your power income will max out your VP, you should automatically decline spending VP for power.

For example, I have it set to automatically spend 2 VP for 3 power. I have 1 power in bowl 1 and 4 power in bowl 2. I have 8 power movement income. My power movement is going to be maxed out when I receive my income when the round ends, so I should decline spending VP for power until my turn starts, as there is no situation where that would be beneficial for me.

It's very annoying to have passed and come back to the game to find I have spent a bunch of VP for power when I already would have been maxed when I got my income.

You should put this on the tm page. It would also be nice if conversions for resources were automatic. Too many times have I accidentally passed with full power in bowl 3. At least now I am aware that you can leave yourself notes for tb games. But this mistake is still possible even live.

These are board game adaptions. You are meant to be playing the game not the computer.
Computer aided play is a slippery slope, as you are demonstrating here.

Ultimately, it's your responsibility to calculate correctly.

RicardoRix wrote: ↑05 July 2023, 13:07 These are board game adaptions. You are meant to be playing the game not the computer.
Computer aided play is a slippery slope, as you are demonstrating here.

Ultimately, it's your responsibility to calculate correctly.

I see you haven't played any Terra Mystica on here so I see why you don't see the issue. It's not about calculating correctly, it's very obvious when you need to decline VP. It could be as simple as that you have an income of 2 VP, and you only need 2 VP to max out. But 95% of the time, it is correct to automatically take 2 VP for 1 power, or 3 VP for 2 power, so TM players often set it to automatically do it, because it saves hours and hours of gametime over the course of a game, especially when playing with people in other time zones, and it's very easy to forget to turn it off when you pass your turn.

Here is a common scenario:
I have a trading post. I end my turn. I need 8 power income to max out my power, and I HAVE 8 power income, so I actually need 0 more power, and I know this, so if I were playing in real life, I would obviously decline gaining additional power. Then before it is my turn again, perhaps while I am asleep because I am playing against people in Hong Kong, 4 buildings are built next to me, and I automatically spend 1 VP for 2 power 4 times in a row. This is a complete waste of VP, because I would have gotten the power income anyway for my turn, but I had it set to automatically spend it.

The reason we do that is because otherwise, every single time someone built next to me, I would have to manually choose to receive or decline the power, and it would have added 4 extra back and forth turns to the game, which can easily translate to an extra 2+ days of the game lasting depending on time zones, and as I said, you basically always want to accept the power, except in this exact circumstance (that you have already passed and your income will max out your power anyway).

I understand. I already understood. I have played plenty of games of Terra Mystica on BGA.

You don't seem to appreciate that you're playing a Board Game Adaption, not a computer game and not even a 'computer needs to automatically do things for me' game.

Alloran wrote: ↑05 July 2023, 15:22 so if I were playing in real life, I would obviously decline gaining additional power.

So the same as real-life, here on BGA you have to action the decline of power. That's the board game adaption. Same choices as real-life. What you consider are 'automatic decisions' are still decisions.
Players can make decision that are bad. Players can make moves that have no benefit. Players can make moves that are even detrimental to their position. None of those decisions should have been made. And even good players make these kinds of decisions sometimes.
We don't need automatic catches to stop those from happening.

Alloran wrote: ↑05 July 2023, 15:22 Time is precious.

If you want to play the game, then play the game. If you want to do something else with your time, then do that instead. Terra Mystica is long complicated game. Use the auto gain feature as you wish.

If you want to play the game, then play the game. If you want to do something else with your time, then do that instead. Terra Mystica is long complicated game. Use the auto gain feature as you wish.

Precisely, I want to play the game, as does everyone else, which is why I want to reduce this wasted downtime between turns. You are obviously correct that this is a board game adaptation of a real life game, but this is actually something that translates better with what I am proposing, because in real life you would NEVER accept the power for VP. That is an artifact of translating the game onto BGA, which my proposal removes. When you get up to go to the bathroom IRL after you pass your turn, you say for example "I will take 2 more VP if someone gives it to me before my turn comes up, but no more than that" which you can't do on BGA.

My proposal saves a HUGE amount of time for everyone, causes fewer games to end due to timeout which is something that we can all agree is a better thing, and has no downsides except that you lose the ability to force your opponent to pay VP they don't need just because they forgot to turn the option off (which is also something that doesn't happen in IRL games), and people lose the ability to make this one single incorrect decision (which in hundreds of games on BGA I have NEVER seen someone purposefully do.) There is still room to make plenty of other horrible decisions in Terra Mystica, just not one of the few that are objectively bad in literally all situations!

You're right, I do choose to sleep sometimes, and it would be much better for everyone if people who are asleep didn't delay the game by being asked to take an action they will obviously say no to.

Also irl it isn’t hours, days, or even weeks before it is your turn again.

Alloran wrote: ↑05 July 2023, 17:57 in real life you would NEVER accept the power for VP. That is an artifact of translating the game onto BGA, which my proposal removes.

I don't believe this to be true. You can most certainly make that mistake.
On BGA it is probably easier to make this calculation, the numbers are all there on the player panel. In real-life you have to count counters and add up all your bonuses.

Either way, and while it maybe a trivial calculation, it is still something you have to do, it's part of playing the game. Mistakes can be made. You should not take that away. It maybe that the player gets caught up in thinking how they will use the power rather than making the calculation to whether they even need to take it. Calculating your power 3 bowl and managing it correctly is part of Terra Mystica.

The game, any game - is just a series of decisions. Sometimes those decisions are trivial, it might even be that it is the only legal move to make. Still it is the player making that move and it's part of playing the game. Coming to the table to play moves also brings your mind to the state of the game. At the same time you also see another player didn't upgrade to a temple and passed early to take bonus spade tile. It's all part of playing the game. You can't just notch it down to wasted time.

Also irl it isn’t hours, days, or even weeks before it is your turn again.

You can always play in a faster time-frame, or in real-time if that's not fast enough.

Alloran wrote: ↑05 July 2023, 17:57 because in real life you would NEVER accept the power for VP.

Here is a common scenario:
I have a trading post. I end my turn. I need 8 power income to max out my power, and I HAVE 8 power income, so I actually need 0 more power, and I know this, so if I were playing in real life, I would obviously decline gaining additional power. Then before it is my turn again, perhaps while I am asleep because I am playing against people in Hong Kong, 4 buildings are built next to me, and I automatically spend 1 VP for 2 power 4 times in a row. This is a complete waste of VP, because I would have gotten the power income anyway for my turn, but I had it set to automatically spend it.

Are you just simply missing using this option from the UI:

Automatically decline spending VP for power

This is a perfect solution for your scenario.

RicardoRix wrote: ↑06 July 2023, 09:33

Alloran wrote: ↑05 July 2023, 17:57 because in real life you would NEVER accept the power for VP.

Here is a common scenario:
I have a trading post. I end my turn. I need 8 power income to max out my power, and I HAVE 8 power income, so I actually need 0 more power, and I know this, so if I were playing in real life, I would obviously decline gaining additional power. Then before it is my turn again, perhaps while I am asleep because I am playing against people in Hong Kong, 4 buildings are built next to me, and I automatically spend 1 VP for 2 power 4 times in a row. This is a complete waste of VP, because I would have gotten the power income anyway for my turn, but I had it set to automatically spend it.

Are you just simply missing using this option from the UI:

Automatically decline spending VP for power

This is a perfect solution for your scenario.

I am not missing the option, it's just very easy to forget you have to put that on when you pass, because, again, in real life you'd never have to do that, (and because often you DO want to leave it on). It is an artifact from translating the game to BGA. You can argue that remembering to change BGA settings when you pass is part of the "skill" of playing on BGA, and I respect that position, I just vehemently disagree. I am also not arguing just for myself, I don't like when other players lose VP for no reason either, and it happens in practically every game.

I agree that any board game is just a series of decisions, however, trivial decisions are bad. We don't play board games, particularly not TM, to make trivial decisions that have only one correct answer, and all you have to do to find it is literally do addition. If this decision didn't hold up the game for everyone, then sure, leave it in, whatever. But it does. Its existence only makes the game worse for everyone. It is a trivial decision that makes the game take longer for everyone and your only choices are adding correctly or making an objectively wrong decision. That is the very definition of bad game design, and since it only exists as an artifact of BGA's implementation, and could easily be removed, why leave it in? What is the benefit, other than "more decisions = always better" which is just clearly false?