Board Game Arena

So, I'm relatively new here, and I believe I understand the concept of Kingmaking ...however, how to detect this, or even prove it?

I'm asking, as I'm currently in a game where I suspect kingmaking is occurring (moves are VERY suspicious) ... and wondering how I should go about verifying ... as of course, it warns, invalid reporting of a player may result in counter punishment

Step #1 is to consider whether the player's move was logical from their own perspective and only incidentally helped someone other than you. I think a lot of BGAers overlook this and see things only from their own perspective.

This x1,000,000

Strode wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 03:47 Step #1 is to consider whether the player's move was logical from their own perspective and only incidentally helped someone other than you. I think a lot of BGAers overlook this and see things only from their own perspective.

Not to mention that with experience, you understand the game better.
So if you are experienced and see something logical, you can more often assume it will be logical too for others players. On the other hand, when you discover a game, and find something logical, maybe you are missing something else.

And so if both of them are done, in the first case, players will help each other without you, and in the second case, player will refuse that help to do something else. And in both cases you will wrongly think it's kingmaking.

Nice replies.
What about when there's no logic whatsoever, and someone is actually helping someone else win?

To the OP: you cannot do anything (no reporting option) except just red thumbing the one you suspect, after you fully comprehend there was no logic for him/herself, gamewise.

To verify even further... i assume you can ask the player, in the game-chat, something like "interesting move, but why did you do it? no benefit for you, but only benefit for X".

Anyway, you don't have to worry that your report about kingmaking will have consequences on you, because that type of report is impossible as we speak; it's suggested you just red thumb the person, instead.

Also, try to look at some Game Forums, for instance Backgammon (which is a 2 players game, but still...).
A lot of players there accuse some players of kingmaking/cheating, with little or no results.

It's nice to see that people put the "wrongly accusing" above the "actual kingmaking" that IMO, is one of the biggest flaws of the site.
And there's not much one can do about that.

Strode wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 03:47 Step #1 is to consider whether the player's move was logical from their own perspective and only incidentally helped someone other than you. I think a lot of BGAers overlook this and see things only from their own perspective.

Exactly, which is why I'm here.

First 4 or few turns, the player appeared to be a beginner - ie never played before. Moves appeared to be at random ... and by third or 4th turn, the player is, effectively, in a state which is unrecoverable: impossible to win, in a downward spiral impossible to get out of.

Their moves up to that point had no logic/reason to them.

Suddenly, on this last turn, I am in line to achieve an objective, which the 3rd player would clearly be unable to attain .. and suddenly this "random" player appears to be building with what seems "perfectly random coincidence?" and potentially can "steal" said objective from me.

Couple fair points:

1) according to their history, it's their 2nd game playing this game.
2) I'm not seeing any other odd evidence/moves in other games by them .. however, their first game of this game was equally "random - suicidal movements" .. with not reasoning to it.
3) up to this point, the only "interference" has been smart choices by the other active player - no issues there - part of the game.
4) at the current moment, the "random" player hasn't actually stolen the objective from me .. I'm not sure if they're even aware of it .. however, to do so, would require them to use an action that they have not yet used once before in the game (and it's an action you need to take to make points in the game).
5) there is a possibility doing so, also gives the other player points - which would be a very clear indicator of team playing (as there currently exists an equal move to secure objective without giving him points) ..

(Yes I'm being deliberately vague, as the point isn't to lead people or call out a specific player )

So I'm still waiting to see how this plays out ... it could be a bit of paranoia by me . .however, due to the nature of this players moves, I feel like it's very very odd .. hence I'm just tryin got gather a bit more on this, and how to go about it . .and what to watch for.

(if you're truly interested in more details , pm me ... we can discuss in private )

thanks!

Ditto11 wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 18:32

Also, look at their game-histories.

If they play together in more games, in general, this is usually an indicator of kingmaking (not that it would mean very much, from a justice p.o.v.).

Good luck.

Ze Monstah wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 18:47

Ditto11 wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 18:32

Also, look at their game-histories.

If they play together in more games, in general, this is usually an indicator of kingmaking (not that it would mean very much, from a justice p.o.v.).

Good luck.

Yeah did that already .. not seeing an obvious trend .. however, if somebody was serious about it, wouldn't be terribly hard to create new accounts for it or other such nonsense .. (of which I'm not seeing anything .. so probably just me being paranoid )

Ditto11 wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 19:40

Ze Monstah wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 18:47

Ditto11 wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 18:32

Also, look at their game-histories.

If they play together in more games, in general, this is usually an indicator of kingmaking (not that it would mean very much, from a justice p.o.v.).

Good luck.

Yeah did that already .. not seeing an obvious trend .. however, if somebody was serious about it, wouldn't be terribly hard to create new accounts for it or other such nonsense .. (of which I'm not seeing anything .. so probably just me being paranoid )

Perhaps in your situation, the player maybe did some unintentional kingmaking simply by being inexperienced and etc.
But intentional kingmaking does happen and it continues to be a threat.

Ze Monstah wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 19:53

Ditto11 wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 19:40

Ze Monstah wrote: ↑23 July 2023, 18:47

Also, look at their game-histories.

If they play together in more games, in general, this is usually an indicator of kingmaking (not that it would mean very much, from a justice p.o.v.).

Good luck.

Yeah did that already .. not seeing an obvious trend .. however, if somebody was serious about it, wouldn't be terribly hard to create new accounts for it or other such nonsense .. (of which I'm not seeing anything .. so probably just me being paranoid )

Perhaps in your situation, the player maybe did some unintentional kingmaking simply by being inexperienced and etc.
But intentional kingmaking does happen and it continues to be a threat.

Yes, could be that's why I'm not pointing fingers (yet) . .we'll see how the game plays out . hehe