Tichu Developer Update - Looking for Feedback!

[dashwood314]

Hi. nice to see some attention given to tichu. I don't like that when you click on a game link when someone has invited you that it takes me to the Tichu game page instead of the lobby or the table page so that I can see what table I am being invited to. In my opinion, changing this would be better.

Does that happen for Tichu only or also for other games? I assume that it also applies to other games and thus would be a feature request for BGA as a platform. That is something beyond my and other Tichu developers' control.

[JonGetsGames]

Thanks so much for the time and effort put into making the BGA Tichu experience better.

I do have one big request, and I figure putting it here may be a good idea. I'd LOVE a togglable option to pop up a prompt asking if you want to call tichu right as you perform an action that would cause you to no longer be able to call tichu. Many times I'd forget that you have to call before making a wish, etc, and having a reminder of when BGA thinks you are at the point of no return would be amazing. I've seen many situations where someone meant to call but the opportunity to do so had just closed.

On a related note, having a pop up button for when you call tichu asking if this is what you really want to do. I've accidentally clicked on the tichu button several times, when I had no intention of calling.

Thanks again!

[dashwood314]

I do have one big request, and I figure putting it here may be a good idea. I'd LOVE a togglable option to pop up a prompt asking if you want to call tichu right as you perform an action that would cause you to no longer be able to call tichu.

I think it is best to file a suggestion here: https://boardgamearena.com/bugs?game=1237

That will allow us to have a dedicated discussion about this idea and collect votes and opinions from other Tichu players.

I think it is likely to be a controversial suggestion, because you could argue that it is part of the game that you have to remember to call Tichu before playing your first card. Let's see what others have to say and how much vote the suggestion collects.

On a related note, having a pop up button for when you call tichu asking if this is what you really want to do. I've accidentally clicked on the tichu button several times, when I had no intention of calling.

This has been reported many times and there are two changes that should make the situation much better:

1. Acknowledging button clicks right away by hiding or disabling the button that you have clicked immediately after the click. So you don't click a second time thinking that the first click has not been registered, and then the "Tichu" button appears milliseconds before you click. This change has been released today. And I hope this will already go a long way.

2. The Tichu button will get a fixed location to bottom right of the game panel. You will not even move your mouse into that area, if you don't want to call Tichu. So accidental clicks will become very rare. That change will be released within a week. Stay tuned.

[youngathearttx]

I am so excited that you are taking over the development of Tichu. It is by far my favorite game.

The "fixed" button correction is a simple, but mighty, improvement.

I took a peek at the screenshot. I am impressed with the changes.
Here are my 2 cents.

I am right handed, and the Tichu button being on the right hand side is awkward for me. Intuitively, I would prefer the Tichu button to be out of the way, to the far left side of the button options. My preference would include shifting the other 3 buttons to the right hand side.

That would place "Play Selected Cards," the most frequently clicked button, approximately center screen, allowing players to select cards and play them easily. The "Pass" and "Auto-Pass this Trick" would be to the right of the "Play Selected Cards" button as they are used much more frequently than the "Tichu" button. Misclicking on "Pass" or "Auto-Pass this Trick" doesn't result in the major consequences of a misclick on the Tichu button.

It appears that you have the default to set play counterclockwise, as the game is designed to be played according to the official rules. If that is correct, that is a welcome change to me. I always play counterclockwise, and I have had to set it each and every time at the beginning of a game. It took a while for me to adjust to having to set it Every Game, so that I knew what was being passed to the player before me and the player after me. There were times when I accidentally passed cards while set on "clockwise," and I called for the wrong card with my Mahjong wish.

If counterclockwise is not to be the "automatic" default, I would hope that the default would somehow "carry through" with the player's last choice of counterclockwise or clockwise, rather than having to remember to change that setting during the excitement of a new game. This would be similar to the "tabletop" or "list" view option that "carries through" and does not have to be set prior to every game.

I like the first (tabletop) option, as that is how I always play.
I see a Bomb button on the the fourth (list) option. However, I do not see it in on the first three options.
On option 4, it is placed on the right of the screen. I would move it to another "less convenient" location. Perhaps to the right of Tichu button, after if is moved to the far left hand side of the screen.

I am not sure where or how the Grand Tichu option will be displayed at the beginning of each hand.

Thank you for volunteering your time to making the game of Tichu more enjoyable for all.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

First of all, it's hard to understate how great it is you're doing this, especially being such a new member. It's only through people like you that bga can continue to be the wonderful place that it is.

Besides the button fixes, which are definitely needed. Another much smaller issue that's not talked about as often, but can still cause unnecessary player errors. (Grand) Tichu visibility during card selection someone else had already made a report about it. But I'll update it with some extra context and screenshots. Should be a very easy fix.

Often a "play bomb" button would should even if the player did not have a bomb. This has been fixed.

I'm not sure that's necessarily unintentional. And I don't think it should be changed. Having the button only appear when you have a bomb potentially means tipping off players about bombs they might not have noticed themselves. A BGA game interface should strive for comfortable gameplay that replicates the the real game experience. And should avoid giving players aid or information they wouldn't have in real life. Correctly analyzing your hand for the best (potential) combination is largely what the game is all about. So that shouldn't be aided in any way by the interface.

Additionally, clicking the button pauses the game and is obvious to all players. So pressing the button means your partner knows, with certainty, that you have a bomb. Which could even be used to cheat intentionally.

[Valdamarr]

JonGetsGames wrote: ↑09 August 2023, 16:37
"I do have one big request, and I figure putting it here may be a good idea. I'd LOVE a togglable option to pop up a prompt asking if you want to call tichu right as you perform an action that would cause you to no longer be able to call tichu."

dashwood314 wrote: 09 August 2023, 19:52
"I think it is likely to be a controversial suggestion, because you could argue that it is part of the game that you have to remember to call Tichu before playing your first card. Let's see what others have to say and how much vote the suggestion collects."

Yes, totally agree with Dashwood, That request should be unecessary and would be a big difference from how you would play the game face to face, there is no alert to tell you that you can still call tichu before playing your first card. Players have to take responsibility for (remembering) some things and paying attention.

I agree that the bomb button should always be visible, it is the players responsibility to be aware if they have a bomb.

I am not sure if Tuut Tuut tis Luut is requesting a larger GT notification or not. But the current GT notification is good enough. Again it relates to players concentrating.

The online game play should replicate as best it can the real life/face to face game circumstances.

[Paumenn]

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@dashwood314

You are a true hero

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[Thomas]

I played some games of Tichu today and the new buttons with fixed positions are great!

I wonder if it is just me or if the new update changed the meaning of clockwise and anti-clockwise? In the options, I choosed "anti-clockwise", as this is the usual way, I play Tichu in real life. But it seems as if the players take their turns clockwise. No big deal, but irritating.

And after dealing the first 8 cards, when the players have to decide, whether or not to call a Grand Tichu, it seems as if all 4 players can answer that question simultaniously (in any order). In real life, the player that first got his 8 card, has to decide first (before he/she gets hit 9th card). Again, not a big deal, but somehow now the original rule.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

I am not sure if Tuut Tuut tis Luut is requesting a larger GT notification or not. But the current GT notification is good enough. Again it relates to players concentrating.

The GT signifier is great and more than adequate, and nobody could argue the initial pop-up is too small.I'm just asking for the regular indicator to be added to the card passing screen as well.

The issue is that often a split second after coming up, the card passing screen appears. Which currently has no tichu indicator whatsoever. All there's left is the tiny icon in the already visually busy player panel. Already hard to spot, especially so since your cards are at the opposite side of the screen. And there's otherwise no relevant info to warrant looking anywhere else on the screen until you've finished passing cards.

I agree that's there's a certain level of personal responsibility to concentrate. But with an online game you can't expect everyone to have their eyes and full focus on the game imbetween every turn. Especially when the player making the bet is the last to decide. Even just looking a different direction is all it can take to miss the notification entirely. As they're only visible during the time it takes the site to process the move.


It's also not something inherent to the game itself, but an issue specific to the interface and the nature of online play.
You might forget bids, but it'd be very hard to miss the initial bid (esp gt) entirely when playing irl. Since they're announced vocally, and most likely repeated when there's any indication someone wasn't paying attention.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

JonGetsGames wrote: ↑09 August 2023, 16:37
"I do have one big request, and I figure putting it here may be a good idea. I'd LOVE a togglable option to pop up a prompt asking if you want to call tichu right as you perform an action that would cause you to no longer be able to call tichu."

dashwood314 wrote: 09 August 2023, 19:52
"I think it is likely to be a controversial suggestion, because you could argue that it is part of the game that you have to remember to call Tichu before playing your first card. Let's see what others have to say and how much vote the suggestion collects."

Yes, totally agree with Dashwood, That request should be unecessary and would be a big difference from how you would play the game face to face, there is no alert to tell you that you can still call tichu before playing your first card. Players have to take responsibility for (remembering) some things and paying attention.

Very much agree here though, that's just a simple player mistake, and in essence not much different from say, accidentally playing a card that breaks up your straight.

If anything, you could argue it's a mistake that's much easier made in a f2f game. The interface already has a few easy indicators that could help remind you. Mainly, the presence of the bright red tichu button.