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Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 13 August 2023, 13:05
by Tango-Pirate
Since the 1st player advantage issue was solved with the 'even number of turns' rule, it seems to me that when games end in a tie the 'last player to place tiles is the winner' rule is an unfair advantage to the last player now. This rule doesn't make sense now all players have even turns and is an advantage for no other reason than that player being randomly selected to go last.
If 2 or more players finish on the same square at the end of the game (scoring the same points) the game should just end as a tie. Or if a winner really has to be decided maybe go on who scored the most points in a single turn that game and if that would still result in a tie then a tie it is.
So, to summarise... If there is now no advantage to being the 1st player why does the last player gain an advantage in game ties?
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 14 August 2023, 07:39
by Hagardunor
Tango-Pirate wrote: ↑13 August 2023, 13:05
Since the 1st player advantage issue was solved with the 'even number of turns' rule, it seems to me that when games end in a tie the 'last player to place tiles is the winner' rule is an unfair advantage to the last player now. This rule doesn't make sense now all players have even turns and is an advantage for no other reason than that player being randomly selected to go last.
If 2 or more players finish on the same square at the end of the game (scoring the same points) the game should just end as a tie. Or if a winner really has to be decided maybe go on who scored the most points in a single turn that game and if that would still result in a tie then a tie it is.
So, to summarise... If there is now no advantage to being the 1st player why does the last player gain an advantage in game ties?
I agree. May be you could add one extra turn and break the tie by declaring first the one who is ahead after this extra turn. If this additional turn is also a tie, then add one more turn. And so on until at one turn, a player is at least one point ahead.
We call this "mort subite" in french. I dont know the translation in english
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 14 August 2023, 09:02
by Meeplelowda
Hagardunor wrote: ↑14 August 2023, 07:39We call this "mort subite" in french. I dont know the translation in english
The literal translation would be "sudden death," such what they call NHL overtime, but that's the opposite of what you describe. Sudden death is basically the same as first across the finish line. The first goal wins. Each side does not get an equal number of tries. What you describe is more like penalty kicks. Each side always gets a chance to equalize.
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 14 August 2023, 11:30
by Hagardunor
Meeplelowda wrote: ↑14 August 2023, 09:02
Hagardunor wrote: ↑14 August 2023, 07:39We call this "mort subite" in french. I dont know the translation in english
The literal translation would be "sudden death," such what they call NHL overtime, but that's the opposite of what you describe. Sudden death is basically the same as first across the finish line. The first goal wins. Each side does not get an equal number of tries. What you describe is more like penalty kicks. Each side always gets a chance to equalize.
You're right, what I suggested looks effectively closer to penalty kicks in soccer. With the sole difference that you do not start with 5 kicks to shoot before deciding who wins, but only one.
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 14 August 2023, 12:39
by cigma
Tango-Pirate wrote: ↑13 August 2023, 13:05
If 2 or more players finish on the same square at the end of the game (scoring the same points) the game should just end as a tie. Or if a winner really has to be decided maybe go on who scored the most points in a single turn that game and if that would still result in a tie then a tie it is.
Now with even turns it is definitely a disadvantage to start the game (you will rarely get more than 3 points). So why not make the first player the winner in case of a tie?
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 17 August 2023, 18:01
by Compass3
IMHO, in case of a tie, a match should continue until one player has more points, obviously both palyers should have done even turns.
Similar to tennis.
... too many games lost for this (for me, not understandable) rule!
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 17 August 2023, 20:34
by GTSchemer
The publisher is monitoring the situation -- thanks for your patience and ideas.
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 21 August 2023, 23:56
by ipsum
I posted my idea in a different post but wanted to share it here as well:
Hi GTSchemer, thanks for your work on the game. While I agree with the change to everyone having an equal number of turns, that still gives Yellow the power to strategically end the game with no counterplay. I believe a better change would be to end the game after one more full turn rather than the turn where the line was crossed. This give all players more agency and would lessen Yellow's advantage.
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 22 August 2023, 03:13
by GTSchemer
Personally (as BGA developer and player, not publisher) I like equal turns, and possibly playing another round if there is a tie.
ipsum, are you suggesting another full round so all players still have equal turns? That might work, though in real life it would require players to remember when the trigger happened so they can calculate the true game end timing. It's not as elegant as simply finishing with the last player.
Re: Games ending in a tie, last player advantage.
Posted: 23 August 2023, 10:12
by Hagardunor
GTSchemer wrote: ↑22 August 2023, 03:13
Personally (as BGA developer and player, not publisher) I like equal turns, and possibly playing another round if there is a tie.
I'm happy you lean towards that.
Do not discard however the possibility of a new tie after the additional turn, and another after the second additional turn, and so on...