Upcoming Changes: How much information should we show?

[dashwood314]

[EDIT: Poll closed. Conclusion: Add a game option to either reveal and track all public information or none.]

Hey Tichu community,

as developers we are looking for the next step to make Tichu on BGA even more enjoyable, and once again we need your feedback:

How much information should we show to the user or hide?

1. Bombs: Should we always show the "play bomb" button, even if you don't have a bomb? Or should the game interface "tell" the user that they have a bomb by only showing the button when they actually have a bomb?

2. Passed and Accepted Cards: Should we make the passed and accepted cards easily accessible during the round? Or should the user be forced to remember from the beginning of the round?

3. Cards played: Should we show a (tabular?) overview of which cards have already been played? Or should the players have to count aces, etc. themselves?

4. Auto skipping players: Should the game automatically skip players, if it is clear that they cannot beat the combo, because of the cards that have already been played? For example at the moment you have to explicitly "pass" an Ace, even if Dragon and Phoenix are already gone and you don't have more than 3 cards.

Personally, I am in favor of showing all the information to users and here is why:

A. The game will feel snappier and easier to play.

B. We would not be exposing any information that the user could not get from the game log.

C. I know that some users keep track of played cards on the side. And I don't really like the idea that the chances of winning Tichu depend a lot on manual labor that players are willing to invest into tracking played cards. Or on having a good memory. Strategy and tactics should be the deciding factors.

I am sure that this is a controversial topic, and I am looking forward to your thoughts!

[Olio Sunsee]

Wasn't A) already there in the past?At some point I was wandering where my bomb was as this had changed and I saw the button despite not having one. So definitely a vote for A, it's just confusing otherwise. On the others I didn't vote in favour, but can certainly follow your argument, and would be good with either.

[LaidBackAries]

I like the idea of having the option for the bomb button to show up or not (vs being constantly displayed). And the option to show played cards like they do on The Crew.
Idk if you want this in a bug report but fyi when a round ends the last hand played goes away very quickly. If you're not paying very close attention you can't really see it. Please either give more time or an option to move on between hands, like in Sushi Go.
A lot of the buttons were moved to the bottom and i didn't like it at first but once i got used to it i liked it better. It might be even more helpful if the arrange cards buttons are on top as well. Otherwise i had to scroll down and then scroll back up to see that was played. It delayed my turn. The proportion for the cards is still a bit off, IMO. I set my screen size to 67% and some players used 80% to be able to see them all clearly.
Speaking of the way to arrange cards, it would be amazing to be able to lock cards so they don't get accidently played (such as a straight bomb). I think Spades is the game that allows that. It might be easier than programming where you can move your cards around in your hand (which would be amazing, btw).
Thank you for all of your hard work on this! A group of us plays weekly and all agreed that play was much smoother this week!

[lubaroli]

I want to vote for none of the options, but can't. In my opinion these changes would make the online experience very different from an in-person game...

[caiopsoares]

Is it possible to apply these changes only for turn-based matches? In my opinion, these suggestions are good, but not for real time...

[ufm]

My opinion:

1. Displaying 'play bomb' button only when you actually have a bomb would be better.

2, 3. As most of Tichu games are played in real-time and card information is recorded in the log, I don't think this is a necessary feature even though your arguments are understandable (especially C). I even receive requests to remove card play logs.

4. I'm already adding this in all climbing games I implemented as a table option and it works well.

[youngathearttx]

How much information should we show to the user?
I can't see how the Vote is relevant if players are only allowed to Vote in Favor of the options, and not Against.

You may select up to 4 options

Tell users that they have a bomb by only showing the "play bomb" button, if the user actually has a bomb. -- NO

Make the passed and accepted cards of the user easily available during the entire round. -- this is Unlike IRL. maybe only on turn-based ?

Provide a concise tabular overview of which cards have already been played during the current round.
--again, this is Unlike IRL. maybe only on turn-based ?

The game logic should automatically skip players that cannot beat the current combo taking all played cards into account. -- NO

[pratchettfan]

Is it possible to apply these changes only for turn-based matches? In my opinion, these suggestions are good, but not for real time...

I agree. These options would be great for turn-based games where I regularly need to scan the game log to see what happened while I was offline.

For real-time games I'd only pick A). Because it is part of the game to remember what has been played.

[Valdamarr]

How much information should we show to the user?
I can't see how the Vote is relevant if players are only allowed to Vote in Favor of the options, and not Against.

You may select up to 4 options

Tell users that they have a bomb by only showing the "play bomb" button, if the user actually has a bomb. -- NO

Make the passed and accepted cards of the user easily available during the entire round. -- this is Unlike IRL. maybe only on turn-based ?

Provide a concise tabular overview of which cards have already been played during the current round.
--again, this is Unlike IRL. maybe only on turn-based ?

The game logic should automatically skip players that cannot beat the current combo taking all played cards into account. -- NO

I agree with what this player has said, the online version of the game should mirror the real life experience of the game as closely as possible.

Meaning that what players should/need to do to increase their chances of winning (such as remembering which high cards have already been played as the round progresses) should be the same in the online game. That is another area which makes some players more successful than others - in addition to hand management, tactics and strategy.

Manual labor is an important part of the real life game - making an effort to fully concentrate and remember cards that have already been played etc. Just as important as hand management and tactics and is an attribute that leads to being more successful. Some players don't want to invest that much effort and then they miss or forget some detail which impacts negatively on them winning later on in the round. It is their choice but also you lose more often because of it and it separates out the best players from those at lower levels just as strategy, hand management and decision-making do.

Personally, I'd prefer not to have any of them implemented. If I have to vote for one, I'd choose to vote for the bomb option.

Also, the voting options/structure is poor because you can't vote against any of the options (only in favour) and have to vote for at least one. Thus it proves nothing really.

However, the turn based version of the game is different and as I don't play tb games, so I think it is for those players that do to decide on that.

[Valdamarr]

I have seen players not realise or forget they have a bomb both in real life games and in online games before now because there has been no tab to alert them that they have a bomb. It is a players responsibility to be observant and notice they have a bomb in real life and so it should be online.