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Posted: **22 August 2023, 18:44**

I don't understand how the Validator B>1 Y>1 P>1 works (Blue,Yellow,Purple)
I test 312 vs that validator. I get TRUE.
- I understand both B and P are indeed >1, but that I didn't get info about Y.
I test 345 vs the same validator. I get TRUE again.
- This time I consider that each of my three digits >1

Wrong ... the solution was 221.

How can Purple be 1 ????

Posted: **22 August 2023, 19:03**

kerkael wrote: ↑22 August 2023, 18:44 I don't understand how the Validator B>1 Y>1 P>1 works (Blue,Yellow,Purple)
I test 312 vs that validator. I get TRUE.
- I understand both B and P are indeed >1, but that I didn't get info about Y.
I test 345 vs the same validator. I get TRUE again.
- This time I consider that each of my three digits >1

Wrong ... the solution was 221.

How can Purple be 1 ????

Yeah, this is a fundamental part of Turing Machine that can be quite confusing; I was actually befuddled by it at first until I played a few games.

(For those playing at home, this is validator 31.)

Validators have some number of potential criteria, but they only actually test a single criterion. The three potential criteria for this valdator are:

Blue is greater than 1

Yellow is greater than 1

Purple is greater than 1

You don't know which one it is in a particular game at the start, but you do know that it only tests one of these.

Your first test number was 3-1-2, and you got TRUE. That means that the validator is either testing Blue is greater than 1 or Purple is greater than 1. It can't be testing Yellow, because you set that to 1, and it would have returned FALSE in that case. (In fact, had it returned FALSE, you would immediately know that the criteria it is testing is Yellow is greater than 1.)

Your second test number was 3-4-5. Unfortunately, this is always going to return TRUE on this validator, because every digit you're testing is greater than 1, and all three of the potential criteria are is <SOME COLOR> greater than 1? Which they all are. So you learned nothing new from this test.

The final answer was 2-2-1. Given your first test number of 3-1-2 and the TRUE result from that, we can deduce that the actual criterion for this validator was:

Blue is greater than 1

That's all it tests: is Blue greater than 1? The values for Yellow and Purple are utterly irrelevant (and not checked) by this validator. Both of your test numbers had a Blue digit greater than 1 (3, then 2), and it (correctly) returned TRUE for both of those.

Does that help?

P

Posted: **22 August 2023, 19:43**

Wow ... Thank you.
I guess this explains this as well :
Testing 542 against validator 27: one number is below 4 ... I got False.
I thought I had validated that Purple could not be <4 then ... (while answer was 322 at the end)

What you're telling me is that the validator was in fact not checking Purple ? It was checking either Blue or Yellow, but I don't know which one (yet) ?

Posted: **22 August 2023, 20:24**

kerkael wrote: ↑22 August 2023, 19:43 Wow ... Thank you.
I guess this explains this as well :
Testing 542 against validator 27: one number is below 4 ... I got False.
I thought I had validated that Purple could not be <4 then ... (while answer was 322 at the end)

What you're telling me is that the validator was in fact not checking Purple ? It was checking either Blue or Yellow, but I don't know which one (yet) ?

So since 542 got false, that mean that the criteria tested isn't "purple <4", else it would have returned true.
So now you know that the criteria is either "blue <4" or "yellow <4".

But it still tell nothing else. Even if the criteria ins't "purple<4", purple could be <4.

Posted: **22 August 2023, 21:51**

kerkael wrote: ↑22 August 2023, 19:43 Wow ... Thank you.
I guess this explains this as well :
Testing 542 against validator 27: one number is below 4 ... I got False.
I thought I had validated that Purple could not be <4 then ... (while answer was 322 at the end)

What you're telling me is that the validator was in fact not checking Purple ? It was checking either Blue or Yellow, but I don't know which one (yet) ?

Validator 27 is very similar to the one we just talked about, but it tests whether one of the three colors is less than 4. Again, each game this validator may have a different one of the three that it's testing, but it's only ever testing one of them.

The number you provided, 5-4-2, has Blue and Yellow greater than 4 and Purple less than 4. So, when it returned False:

It COULD be that the validator is testing Blue is less than 4; you gave it a blue digit of 5, so your Blue digit is not less than 4;

It COULD be that the validator is testing Yellow is less than 4; you gave it a yellow digit of 5, so your Yellow digit is not less than 4;

It CANNOT be that the validator is testing Purple is less than 4, as you gave it a purple digit of 3, which is less than 4, but it returned False. If it were testing this, it would have returned True for your test.

So you know it's one of the first two, but not which one it is. (And the answer doesn't tell me which one, based on this information.)

That's a long-winded fully-written-out way of saying: yes, exactly, it's one of those two, but you don't know which.

Hope that helps.

P

Posted: **23 August 2023, 14:52**

kerkael wrote: ↑22 August 2023, 18:44 I don't understand how the Validator B>1 Y>1 P>1 works (Blue,Yellow,Purple)
I test 312 vs that validator. I get TRUE.
- I understand both B and P are indeed >1, but that I didn't get info about Y.
I test 345 vs the same validator. I get TRUE again.
- This time I consider that each of my three digits >1

Wrong ... the solution was 221.

How can Purple be 1 ????

Once you really understand how the game works (and official rulebook won't offer much help there unfortunately) that's where the fun brain burner starts.

- First word of advice I like to give to new players is the one that actually is emphasized in the rulebook - no verification card is usless! You get the full info on the final code by having one important, irreplaceable info from each of the verifiers. This fact offers you a lot when it come to the approach of solving puzzles faster.

You can also read it as: "It would be impossible to find the final code if one of these verifiers were completely missing because each of them posesses one extremely important bit of information."

- Second advice is concerning that second half of verifiers. Unlike the first half where only one part of it must be correct for all the others to be wrong, the second half works differently - more of its parts could potentially be true, but the verifier holds true information for only one of those things!

You can also read it as: "The verifier blindly sees only one thing that it's there for to give the correct information about. It does not care if more of its criteria could ("accidentally") be correct as well!"

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Posted: **23 August 2023, 16:41**

Jolpaz wrote: ↑23 August 2023, 14:52

- First word of advice I like to give to new players is the one that actually is emphasized in the rulebook - no verification card is usless! You get the full info on the final code by having one important, irreplaceable info from each of the verifiers. This fact offers you a lot when it come to the approach of solving puzzles faster.

You can also read it as: "It would be impossible to find the final code if one of these verifiers were completely missing because each of them posesses one extremely important bit of information."

I didn't know that and it can help.
People should however realize that it is perfectly possible to find the solution without ever asking one of the verificators (as in my game #410045605 )

And that is because of the unicity rule.

The rules guarantee that only one solution passes all the verificators.

This means that if you can find 2 codes that cannot be differentiated by the verificators (meaning that if one of them passes them all then the other code does too) then neither codes is the solution.

In game #410045605 , i was able to discard 8 codes (223, 232 , 423, 432, 234, 243, 434, 443) just because of unicity at end of round 1 (could actually have discarded them before asking any question at all but I didn't bother to do that).
For instance, look at 223 and 423 : they both have blue even so they always give the same result for verificator A, they both have one "3" so they give the same result for B, they both have yellow < purple so they always give the same result for C, they both have 2 even numbers so they also give the same result for D. So if one is a solution, the other is too so neither can actually be a solution be given the promise of a unique solution.

Posted: **23 August 2023, 17:50**

I gave a simple example here: https://en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Tips_turingmachine

But I used my solver in many easy games, and it's usually doable in 1 or 2 questions. Rarely in 0 or 3.

Posted: **23 August 2023, 17:58**

Jolpaz wrote: ↑23 August 2023, 14:52 - First word of advice I like to give to new players is the one that actually is emphasized in the rulebook - no verification card is usless!

And in fact you get information from the card being there, whether or not you use it to get an answer.

Suppose you've figured out there are two 4s and blue is odd. There's another card that tests whether blue is larger, smaller or equal to yellow, and that's the only info you're missing. Do you actually need to test it? Probably not.

If blue is odd and there are two 4s, the code is 144, 344 or 544.
Blue obviously cannot be equal to yellow.
If blue is smaller, you'd still not know if the code is 144 or 344.
If blue is larger, the code must be 544.

So, without ever asking the information from the card, the mere presence of it tells you what the answer will be and therefore the right code.

Posted: **08 September 2023, 16:59**

Sunfall wrote: ↑22 August 2023, 19:03
kerkael wrote: ↑22 August 2023, 18:44 I don't understand how the Validator B>1 Y>1 P>1 works (Blue,Yellow,Purple)
I test 312 vs that validator. I get TRUE.
- I understand both B and P are indeed >1, but that I didn't get info about Y.
I test 345 vs the same validator. I get TRUE again.
- This time I consider that each of my three digits >1

Wrong ... the solution was 221.

How can Purple be 1 ????
Yeah, this is a fundamental part of Turing Machine that can be quite confusing; I was actually befuddled by it at first until I played a few games.

(For those playing at home, this is validator 31.)

Validators have some number of potential criteria, but they only actually test a single criterion. The three potential criteria for this valdator are:

Blue is greater than 1

Yellow is greater than 1

Purple is greater than 1
You don't know which one it is in a particular game at the start, but you do know that it only tests one of these.

Your first test number was 3-1-2, and you got TRUE. That means that the validator is either testing Blue is greater than 1 or Purple is greater than 1. It can't be testing Yellow, because you set that to 1, and it would have returned FALSE in that case. (In fact, had it returned FALSE, you would immediately know that the criteria it is testing is Yellow is greater than 1.)

Your second test number was 3-4-5. Unfortunately, this is always going to return TRUE on this validator, because every digit you're testing is greater than 1, and all three of the potential criteria are is <SOME COLOR> greater than 1? Which they all are. So you learned nothing new from this test.

The final answer was 2-2-1. Given your first test number of 3-1-2 and the TRUE result from that, we can deduce that the actual criterion for this validator was:

Blue is greater than 1
That's all it tests: is Blue greater than 1? The values for Yellow and Purple are utterly irrelevant (and not checked) by this validator. Both of your test numbers had a Blue digit greater than 1 (3, then 2), and it (correctly) returned TRUE for both of those.

Does that help?

P

I am sorry to ask, but this is seriously melting my brain - how exactly would I know Yellow is not 1?
What if Yellow is 1 in the code; and I set it to 1; and the computer is testing for yellow?
The question I would pose by coding 1 for Yellow is: "Is Yellows NOT greater than 1?" correct? And the computer would then say "true"?
Arg, I feel like this is where I go wrong, but I can't really grasp it. Appreachiate any help!!

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