So, have the games gotten better?

[jgpaladin]

Hanabi seems to have been one of the main games on BGA that drove the whole "abandons get punished" change. I am not interested in debating whether or not that was the right decision, I just want to see what people think about the Hanabi situation since the change.

[jgpaladin]

Separating the question from my own personal take.

Personally, I don't see any improvement. I still see tons of masters players that clearly have not mastered the basics, let alone more complicated skills like board vision. I was promised that these players wouldn't be able to get to master level without abandoning without ELO punishment. But since BGA didn't do anything about the fact that they don't differentiate between 2/3/4/5p games, it's still way too easy for players to get to master level by playing many many 2p games and then they switch to 5p and they don't have the skills nor experience for it. And NONE of the options provided to us by our admins help. Yes, I can RT them. I've given almost 500 by now, almost exclusively to Hanabi players. They keep coming, and I have to experience at least one "why are you even here?" moment with each of them before I RT.

[Blacktango]

Hello, I agree, that I can't say that the expert/master levels have increased since the update.
But more importantly to me is that no one is intentionally bombing the games anymore because we refuse to give up, which is a huge improvement IMO.

[ufm]

But since BGA didn't do anything about the fact that they don't differentiate between 2/3/4/5p games, it's still way too easy for players to get to master level by playing many many 2p games and then they switch to 5p and they don't have the skills nor experience for it. And NONE of the options provided to us by our admins help.

To be fair, BGA has never promised they would separate ratings based on player count/expansion/variant/etc.

But more importantly to me is that no one is intentionally bombing the games anymore because we refuse to give up, which is a huge improvement IMO.

And this was the intention of the change. Seems it's working well then.

[Silene]

I'm too no longer getting bullied for refusing an abandon. So my experience increased a lot!

[Stroom]

Much better. Games are all played to the end. I see some bad players now being below 700 elo. More pleasant games.

Player count vs ranking is a different aspect. This change would not fix that issue. I always play 2p and I do not care about any other player count as those games are always too slow for my taste. Elo does not matter overall, it's too vague anyway.

BUT... master being 700 is too low. Most bad players are at the 700-800 range. We should be able to set the elo values rather than the names assigned to the ranges when filtering the players.

[aesche]

Before the update, in the according group, there were daily (sometimes several) reports about ppl pushing for abandon, getting rude and/or bombing if the request was refused. Now it‘s rather at 1 per month. Not as active myself lately, but that‘s a massive improvement, with the right fix that was long overdue.

[Ant Stewart]

I think it basically comes down to - do you enjoy seeing a game through to the end once a perfect score is no longer possible.

If you feel playing the game to the end is part of the enjoyment, then games are better as there is less pressure to quit. If you only care for 100% and don't enjoy playing out cards when the game is no longer winnable then it is worse.

IMO the problem was in the matching up of interests which this change does not resolve.

[Luca7789]

Unfortunately I'd say it's gotten worse. What I now notice is I'm now held hostage. Notwithstanding the whole policy of so much of the moderation team clearly don't speak english as a first language, now what you tend to find in a 2p/3p/4p game (I tend not to play 5p), is that once one person makes a mistake, or they don't agree with some POV, they just misfire.

Previously I would hold up the game and abandon, now I just suffer and get pushed down. Then (quite rightly so, I might add), you then find you're in the slums, because you cannot push your way back up. This combined with the fact I refuse to pay for premium until I see a marked improvement in the moderation team, means I'm now destined to just avoid playing it as much, it's much less enjoyable.

TL;DR - Would rather play at a 1000+ elo and have 20% bad games, than be forced to play at a very low elo and be held hostage when someone disagrees

EDIT: Also the fact that Hanabi doesn't implement Elo properly makes me wince. Elo is designed to reward a win with points. That's literally the way it works. It is a predictive model based on assumed win-rates. It is perfect for a game like Hanabi, yet is implemented incorrectly.

[Stroom]

Unfortunately I'd say it's gotten worse. What I now notice is I'm now held hostage. Notwithstanding the whole policy of so much of the moderation team clearly don't speak english as a first language, now what you tend to find in a 2p/3p/4p game (I tend not to play 5p), is that once one person makes a mistake, or they don't agree with some POV, they just misfire.

Previously I would hold up the game and abandon, now I just suffer and get pushed down. Then (quite rightly so, I might add), you then find you're in the slums, because you cannot push your way back up. This combined with the fact I refuse to pay for premium until I see a marked improvement in the moderation team, means I'm now destined to just avoid playing it as much, it's much less enjoyable.

TL;DR - Would rather play at a 1000+ elo and have 20% bad games, than be forced to play at a very low elo and be held hostage when someone disagrees

EDIT: Also the fact that Hanabi doesn't implement Elo properly makes me wince. Elo is designed to reward a win with points. That's literally the way it works. It is a predictive model based on assumed win-rates. It is perfect for a game like Hanabi, yet is implemented incorrectly.

Elo calculation is fine as it is.

For some reason I have red thumbed you. Didn't play very well in the few games we played so I suspect the problem is with you. Maybe talking arrogantly and forcing your opinion on others even if it doesn't make sense?