Settle Debate Please

[MrMisterMystery]

I played with a 770 ELO player, three player, avalanche, finesse table.

I skipped and clued red to this 770 player and the player in between us played mc1 off of left.

They did not play and said “looks like a bluff to me”, and proceeded to LOL at me 150 times and tell how stupid I am for claiming you can’t bluff out an MC card.

If I’m wrong I’m wrong, but I’d appreciate hearing from players who feel they are strong Hanabi players to settle this debate.

[Silene]

If they insult you in chat, you can report them (doesn't matter if they were right or wrong). And if you hope for insights on a game you better provide a link to a replay so people can actually look at it

[MrMisterMystery]

If they insult you in chat, you can report them (doesn't matter if they were right or wrong). And if you hope for insights on a game you better provide a link to a replay so people can actually look at it

Didn’t think a replay is necessary, it’s a simple question. Can you bluff out an MC card or not? If you want to spend all that time watching a game to see it, have at it.

[jhendley27]

Let’s say the 1R is already played..and the left red card you clue is 3R then the person in between you 2 would think there left card is the 2R so they would play it. They would think it’s finesse and play there left most card, making that bluff. Definitely possible

[MrMisterMystery]

Let’s say the 1R is already played..and the left red card you clue is 3R then the person in between you 2 would think there left card is the 2R so they would play it. They would think it’s finesse and play there left most card, making that bluff. Definitely possible

Your point is irrelevant. The fact is the card that was played blindly based on the clue was MC1. Since mc was played, you should have played the card that prompted it to be played

[aesche]

Your tone at people that are trying to help is way off. If it‘s too much effort for you to link the game you refer to, you don‘t have to wonder if people come up with examples that don‘t match your situation. Going with all the games that you bomb out also doesn‘t suggest that you‘d be the one that knows how to play.

[Blacktango]

A bluff is valid when it can be revealed before a bomb.

If you clue a card and the previous player plays an unclued card, the question is: "is the bluff revealed?"
If you clue a R3 with a R clue, and the previous player plays an M2, does the clue-receiver now know that their clued card is not playable?

If you're not playing Avalanche, then the answer is yes. If the R3 can't be M (because of a previous clue of a different color), then yes again.
But if not, how does the player know they have a R3 and not a M3? Ambiguous clues are not worth it.

Don't let your teammate guess if they have to play or not. Just don't give such a clue to bluff, then you can safely use it to give a common M finesse, which is the most common need.

[Travis Hall]

Thank you, Blacktango, for explaining this, so that I don’t have to again.

But I’ll add, don’t expect your partners to make you guess. A colour clue, by default (in finesse play), tells you to play the card touched. We follow that instruction unless something tells us not to. We don’t guess at reasons not to play it.

The blind play of a multi isn’t telling you that the previous clue was a lie, for the reasons that Blacktango laid out. You can’t deduce for sure that you should hold the clued card. So either you’re playing finesse convention, and you play until you know otherwise, or you’re guessing.

And guesses go wrong, so we don’t guess, we don’t ask our partners to guess, and we don’t assume our partners will ask us to guess.

The result is that typically, we can finesse multis, but not bluff them.

[Travis Hall]

Let’s say the 1R is already played..and the left red card you clue is 3R then the person in between you 2 would think there left card is the 2R so they would play it. They would think it’s finesse and play there left most card, making that bluff. Definitely possible

We call that a bad bluff, because it doesn’t reveal the bluff to the clue receiver. Technically you can do it, in that it’s not against the rules of the game, but it’s a bad idea because most of the time someone will misfire.

[MrMisterMystery]

Your tone at people that are trying to help is way off. If it‘s too much effort for you to link the game you refer to, you don‘t have to wonder if people come up with examples that don‘t match your situation. Going with all the games that you bomb out also doesn‘t suggest that you‘d be the one that knows how to play.

I didn’t link a game bc it’s not about the game, it’s a singular question. I specifically said the game was avalanche, 3 player, so only one person will play off the finesse/bluff clue, and my question was specific to finessing an MC card off of left.

If a person skips/reaches and colors and the person responds by playing an mc card (during avalanche game) off of left, should the person who got the clue play or assume it might be a bluff? Thats my question: why do you need a specific game to watch to answer that? Does the answer depend on the game? No, it’s a general question about avalanche and finesse/bluff.

Tangos answer matches what I understand to be true, you don’t assume it’s a bluff.