Major revisions of Help & Tips

[Ant Stewart]

Conversely the disadvantages of never discarding in round one.
1. You potentially waste a clue.
2. It slows down the time taken to get a new potentially useful card into you hand.

Actually, I’m far more worried about players not thinking through the scenario than I am about these effects. Some of your scenarios are demonstrating the problem.

3: This time you are P2 and Bob is last. Bob has r1 on chop say and g1 somewhere else in the deck. You have y2 on chop, and r2 elsewhere.
If I let you clue Bob, you will likely clue Bob both their 1s, and then will play g1 first, after which you would discard y2.
Instead I would rather skip you and clue r1 directly, knowing that you won't discard on round 1. Then when Bob plays r1, I can then give you a 2s clue next round, getting you to play r2 and saving the other.

See, here you’ve made an assumption that I need a strict rule to prevent a discard. I don’t. Your clue tells me more than you are accounting for.

If you clue red to 1r, you are telling Bob to play, but you are also telling me (as the player in between)

• My chop is not unique, because you should save it if it is.

• 1r is an urgent play, because otherwise you would favour 1s; this hints that I hold 2r, and since 2r is not eligible for a save, it could be on my chop.

I’d favour cluing green for 1g over a discard even without noting these deductions, but with them I definitely should be cluing.

Also, if you were to clue empty, and I clued 1s, and then you clued 2s, I should wait to see if 1r plays before attempting to play a 2.

1: I am playing first, followed by Bob, followed by you in 3 players, 6th colour, difficult.
You have r5, multi3, multi4 in your hand. It is impossible to save all of that in time. With no discards first round though, 2 could be saved at the start and then next round, the other one.

This one is a variation of the classic B: x x 1k 5 scenario, one I would rarely encounter because I hardly ever play non-Avalanche. Even so, you don’t need a ban on discarding in the first round to deal with it.

Notice how I said that if you don’t clue me or leave me a clue to give when I am second seat, I will discard? I won’t discard if you give me a save clue, because I am aware that the scenario exists in which two saves are required.

That awareness extends to when playing with a full suit of unique multis. Unless you allow cluing multi as a save, that setup may require saving your entire hand one card at a time. “No discards in the first round” isn’t even enough here, as with 3 players, 5-card multi, and Black Powder, you may be saving into the third round.

So rather than “no discards in the first round”, a principle of assuming your own chop is not safe to discard unless you have observed another player to choose not to save your current chop is stronger. That principle extends well beyond the opening, too. Suppose you are playing 3-player, and after discarding you receive two saves; in the mid-game, you should often be aware of the possibility of a triple-save requirement, which would require you to clue to give your partners the chance for that third save.

By thinking the scenarios through, we maintain flexibility and safety.

I don't disagree with your logic, and I think this raises an intersting point between mid and avanced play.

With mid level play, you can assume they will follow the convention, but it is risky to assume any kind of logic beyond what is required by the convention.

As such, for mid level games, having the convention include "do not discard on round 1" is required (if the card you are no longer able to save withou this rule has its counterpart at the end of the deck, the absense of this rule could make some games mathematically unwinnable).

For more andvanced games, I see why this becomes unneccesary since you rely of more being read out of the clues, but when just playing the finesse convention, with no assumed logic, then I think this rule is a requirement.

I am not sure how I would word this though. ideally we want people to think through the clues and work out the full meaning behind them, but given that doesn't happen, I think not thinking and not discarding is better than not thinking and discarding. So have a rule of not discarding in the mid game, and then relax it at a higher level?

[Sammy McSam]

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Thanks everyone for the feedback given. I have now updated the English Help and Tips pages.

Latest update: cards are now accessible by people with colourblindness and people who use screen readers.

If you would like help to update other languages, I can help with technical things (but not translation ).