Arena Scoring is broken

[Rhumburac]

When you play a weaker opponent you get far to less points for beating them and loose far to much point loosing.
To win 2 points and to loose 34 means you have to win at least 17 out of 18 games.
The game is far too much luck based to make this possible.
Forest Shuffle is not Chess!!
The best move for a player on 1st place is not to play anymore.

Imho this needs to be fixed asap to make the game still fun on arena mode

Please help.

[Andrewsmile]

You lost to a player with 1/4 of your elo and who is bronze while you are elite. Those score very low on every game on the platform regardless of how luck-based the game is. For contrast, here is a game where you score a whole 12 points despite your opponent having half your elo and being in silver. https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=463723114. The reality is that it is actually quite rare for good players to both match against bronze 1 players with 100 elo and also lose to them, though it happens on occasion. If your winrate is high enough you will climb regardless, no fix needed.

[Rhumburac]

I strongly disagree!
The matchmaker sends you against weaker players quite often ... and even if not my point still stands:

The game is NOT chess .. there is quite a bit of luck included.
Far to much for subtracting so much points for a loss.

You can see this quite well at the ladder right now:

The top player is at 1815 points and have not played a game in 3 days because he knows for sure this will not bring him any gain but just loose him points

[redeemedmonkeycma]

I strongly disagree!
The matchmaker sends you against weaker players quite often ... and even if not my point still stands:

The game is NOT chess .. there is quite a bit of luck included.
Far to much for subtracting so much points for a loss.

You can see this quite well at the ladder right now:

The top player is at 1815 points and have not played a game in 3 days because he knows for sure this will not bring him any gain but just loose him points

1st place has played 8 games in the past 24 hours...

[Andrewsmile]

I strongly disagree!
The matchmaker sends you against weaker players quite often ... and even if not my point still stands:

You misunderstand- of course matchmaking pits players against weaker players all the time, but it is rare for GOOD players (high elo players with 80-90% winrates) to both match with them AND lose to them since they lose so few games in general. No one is arguing there is no luck involved.

edited to remove part about him not playing since poster means he is not playing arena mode since obtaining the number 1 spot, which is true

[Rhumburac]

Maybe you missunderstand:

1st
kasstislave
Russia
1815

is still on 1815 points .. since about 3 days ... so no lie here

and the main point that there is quite a LOT luck in this game nad not "no luck" as you said.
and with this much luck its not appropriate to have an elo system which is intended to work on no-luck-games like chess

so all my points still stand

[Rutabaga00]

That player got limited access to the website until februrary. Its not that he wont play, its that he cant play.

[Andrewsmile]

Ah, I misunderstood the initial poster, I apologize. He is saying the top player is no longer playing arena mode, not that they aren't playing at all. This is true of every game on the platform- I've been #1 arena at this game before (albeit for a very short time in the first season) as well as for some other games, and yeah I'm not going to play arena mode when I'm at the top, someone else will have to pass me first. It's the safest way to maintain a lead, which is the optimal way to play the competitive mode.

Also, my phrasing was a bit unclear- "No one is arguing there is no luck involved" means that there is no one, including myself, saying that this game does not have any luck. There is definitely luck involved in this game. But the elo/Arena score algorithm doesn't care about how much luck is in the game, and in fact is a great way of quantifying it- Games with less luck like Ark Nova, Azul, etc have top players with much higher elo scores (700+) than games with less luck like forest shuffle, challengers, etc, which never get into the 700 range because the luck involved makes it impossible. This doesn't mean that the "Arena Scoring is Broken", it means that players won't get to as high of an elo score before they "cap out". Ark nova had arena scores in the 2100s last season, challengers never made it past 1750. This game is somewhere in the middle. If you are the best player, you will be at the top of the ladder. It may take you a lot of games to get there, and another very good player might go on a lucky run and steal the #1 spot, but if you are good you will climb.

[Rhumburac]

Apology accepted

From my point of view there is nothing wrong with the elo, because its mainly informational.
But when I like a game I want to play it ... and I want to play it in arena mode ...
Its frustrating when the amount of luck in the game is not taken into account when it comes to the scores.

So my point still stands .. For my option something about the arena scoring needs to be changed