Board Game Arena

After a discussion at a table where all four of us lamented the lack of a "Farmer's Hand" variant, I wrote up the suggestion: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=113363.

Within an hour (and compliments on the quick turnaround!), user ufm had rejected it, with the note "Rejected as redeal variants are quite inconsistent and such conditions happen rarely after all."

Now, I'm enough of a newbie here that I don't know whether ufm will see if I leave a comment on a closed bug, so I figured I would respond here.

Addressing the claims:
That redeal variants are quite inconsistent" - I had no idea that there was a dispute over the meaning of Farmer's Hand until I went looking, but I probably should have - this is Euchre, after all. By my count, there are 3 definitions of Farmer's Hands - all 9s and 10s (No Ace, No Face); 4 9s and 10s, and 3 9s or 3 10s. Each of those definitions may or may not reference whether a card matches the upturned card. The former two call for redeals; the latter variant is a variant with exchanging with the Kitty. So you could call it 6 variants.

However, I think the development cost of doing the two redeal variant of each has to be fairly low. 2 conditional if statements, one newly created button (Call Farmer's Hand?), which would call a routine that presumably already exists in the development (dealing)

Given the level of frustration of getting so many bad hands, I would think players would be happy to have it. Once built, it would then be a good stepping stone if someone wanted to add the "unders" variant. But the cost is only worth it IF it happens enough to make it worth it. So, addressing the second claim:

"such conditions happen rarely"

I wrote some code to test this hypothesis. Using my definition of Farmer's Hand (all 9s and 10s) a Farmer's Hand is dealt once every 200 hands. Fairly rare; but in the past 2 months, I've played 500 hands of Euchre - that is, something I should see once a month. Using the 4 9s/10s definition (what Wikipedia calls a Farmer's Hand), it happens once every 9 hands - that is, you should see it once a game. Certainly this happens often enough to be worth adding the variant?

(The 3rd definition (3 9s or 3 10s, no mixing) occurs once in every 7 hands) - In a 3 game match, you could see it 5 times!)

Is the redeal rule a major variant which is widely accepted? - No
Is the redeal rule consistent? - No
Does the redeal rule impact the game significantly? - No

As I can't implement all variants in the world, I have to cut the requests off somewhere. Sorry.

Is the redeal rule a major variant which is widely accepted? - No
Is the redeal rule consistent? - No
Does the redeal rule impact the game significantly? - No

Is the redeal rule a major variant which is widely accepted? - Yes.
Is the redeal rule consistent? - No, this is true. But writing the conditional statements for the 4 different variants is likely the easiest part of programming this whole thing. If I had any PHP experience I would just write this code myself.
Does the redeal rule impact the game significantly? - Yes, as I showed in my first post, for at least 2 of the variants, it makes an impact at least once a game.

I mean, you're a volunteer developer. You don't think it is important enough to be worth your time. That seems like sufficient reason not to do it. But most other games have mounds of suggestions left undone. By rejecting it, you ensure that no future developer of the game will look at this suggestion either.

redeemedmonkeycma wrote: ↑11 February 2024, 23:59 Is the redeal rule a major variant which is widely accepted? - Yes.

Can you provide me a proof that the redeal rules are widely accepted?
I can find some players playing with redeal variants, but that's it.
For example, credible rule sources such as Bicycle, Pagat or Britannica do not mention redeal variants at all.
Actually, you are the first player who requested redeal variants since BGA Euchre's alpha release which was done 7 months ago.

redeemedmonkeycma wrote: ↑11 February 2024, 23:59 Is the redeal rule consistent? - No, this is true. But writing the conditional statements for the 4 different variants is likely the easiest part of programming this whole thing. If I had any PHP experience I would just write this code myself.

Ludo took 14 years to be implemented on BGA. If only it were that simple, someone else would have done it already...
Also, adding too many options brings severe negative impact on matchmaking.
There are already nearly 10 options, and I think this is more than enough.

redeemedmonkeycma wrote: ↑11 February 2024, 23:59 Does the redeal rule impact the game significantly? - Yes, as I showed in my first post, for at least 2 of the variants, it makes an impact at least once a game.

In fact, redeals can be done automatically, and I've done so in some other games as well.
However, it does not alter either the course of the game or the player choice after redeal.
What Euchre redeal rules do is merely changing hand cards before playing or even bidding the trump.
So, it's far less significant compared to other implemented variants or redeals in other games (usually done to prevent instant win or round stop).

redeemedmonkeycma wrote: ↑11 February 2024, 23:59 I mean, you're a volunteer developer. You don't think it is important enough to be worth your time. That seems like sufficient reason not to do it. But most other games have mounds of suggestions left undone. By rejecting it, you ensure that no future developer of the game will look at this suggestion either.

Again, as I can't implement all variants in the world, I have to cut the requests off somewhere.
Besides, leaving suggestions undone does not mean developers are listening to them.
Many of them are simply ignored and then get rejected after a year automatically.