TimeOut Overnight

[Tait-Dallas]

I was in the Puerto Rico tournament and I live in the Central Time Zone of the US. I logged in every day to BGA and yet somehow, my timer kept increasing. I'd wait all day for it to be my turn some days, but it seemed that everyone would go right after I went to bed so then my timer would increase over night, over and over again even though I was diligently playing every single day.

Yesterday, as the game was coming to a close, a player who was behind decided to boot me from the tournament game which seems pretty shady considering two of us had been on a timer for several days.

Not sure what to do about this - I looked for awhile to find a way to contact BGA and their contact page seems to all lead back to a forum or faq.

I had a 100% reputation and this was my first tournament so it's disappointing as I literally logged in every day.

Recommendations?

[RicardoRix]

Tournament timings can be very strict and tough. You have a fixed amount of time to make ALL your moves. Sometimes once a day is not enough, you'll have to be a bit more pro-active in tournaments, otherwise just play regular games with a more lenient timing format.
If you could see the player playing before you tended to make moves during your night-time, then plan your move in your head and make the move first thing in the morning.

[Meeplelowda]

I logged in every day to BGA and yet somehow, my timer kept increasing.

In contrast to a fast turn-based game that has a 12-hour rest period when your clock will never run and a 12-hour "playing hours" period, you entered a tournament that said on the registration page "24 hours a day (no playing hours)." Tell us what you thought that meant so we can clarify any misunderstanding.

[nik592]

That you don't gain time back each turn during a tournament is slightly confusing for new player. I saw the Fixed Time setting in my first tournament, but didn't at all understand what that meant (and was horrified to find on Day 2, my time was already gone due to sleep).

The penalty for being booted from tournaments is lower anyway (4pts instead of 10), and I don't think it increases for multiple offenses as normal leaving does. I get tournament penalties regularly, but I've never had an issue with my reputation preventing me from doing anything. I do my best to select tournaments with longer playtimes, and I'm on here multiple times per day during my waking hours, but sometimes you just can't avoid running your time out. I know I'm relying on goodwill of my opponents to allow the game to finish since I do play my turns and sometimes my opponents are just looking for any way to win.

[Tait-Dallas]

I logged in every day to BGA and yet somehow, my timer kept increasing.

In contrast to a fast turn-based game that has a 12-hour rest period when your clock will never run and a 12-hour "playing hours" period, you entered a tournament that said on the registration page "24 hours a day (no playing hours)." Tell us what you thought that meant so we can clarify any misunderstanding.

I had only played with US players prior. So, had not had a 3D view on what it could look like with international players in a 24 hour playclock. I realize now that it can be distinctly unfair, but figured with BGA having the history it does, that things would've been made "fair" somehow. Reading the comments, I realize I'm naive so that's on me.

But, to answer your question: I signed on thinking the game was fair. That's a huge word that means something different to each person. I get that. Didn't even know that it was a thing until this tournament spiraled the way it did, honestly, as playing for the past 4 years has mostly been with friends or one off games. So, as I'm working through this, I know that I was very upset early on that some players seemed to just take "forever" to make there moves, but only after the game ended did I realize 2 of the 4 players were in different countries/continents. Yeah, I'm a moron - I assumed that tournaments paired us up with people in similar time zones. Never occurred to me that we could be 12+ hours apart. I know a bunch of y'all don't get that and it seems obvious, but I will say that it was not obvious to me. So I'm a moron. OK, terms aside....

This tournament game, I've learned, has 2 US players, 1 French, and one Chinese. So, me/you, an American, play at 8pm CST. The player next is also an from the US, and plays at 8:30pm CST. You are already in bed. The players in France and China play at some point in the next 15 hours - who knows, different time zones....You wake up and have meeting because your job just goes at a million miles an hour, go to work (probably fly somewhere) and finally the end of the day comes and you login to BGA as you always do 1-10 times a day - and yes, you have eaten up 16 hours of your BGA time, even though you're doing the exact same thing everyone else in the tournament is doing (living life and also gaming) but you're being penalized due to time zones. If my player position had been different, then France would wait on me. What I am saying is that massive time zone swings in conjunction with player position can have a very very big impact in a game. In a casual game, who cares? But in a casual game, people 'get' time zone swings. In a tournament? Player position vs time zone is a BIG deal.

BUT, all that said.... me and a 2nd player in our game both had time deficits on us for several days. I also had the option to "fast forward" past the other player on multiple moves. And I didn't take that option - because I'm a classy player that understands life happens to adults. I get it. Yet, somehow, just as the game is about to end and I'm ahead of other players... well, whatever...

I'm just saying that I've been a BGA member for 4 years with a 100% rating and I login every single day, so it makes me sad to have such a bad experience with my first tournament. I wasn't gaming the system. I was in 3rd place on my first game in a game that I'm actually good at. I understand that I'm not familiar with the expansion and that I don't have the time to dedicate to this that some people have - get all of that. And losing is acceptable if it's earned. I still would lose the tournament - I know that since I don't get the expansion - I only have experience with the base game of Puerto Rico - it was to get booted right before the game ended that stood out. I know it doesnt matter what I type - you are required to defend all things BGA. Just saying, if you were able to put yourself in another person's shoes for 5 minutes, re-read what I wrote. Image what it's like for an Asperger's person with few friends to find solace over a website that connects him to real games that he enjoys. How fearful it is for him (me) to play at all with people he (me) knows. Then, 4 years in, to finally start playing with strangers. Then, to finally enter a tournament in a game he knows (even though they are using an expansion he doesn't know, it's fine). And, then to login every single day - even some days to see the other players haven't played for 12 hours - and somehow, following the rules, to get a time penalty but keep playing. Then to see how people come to the defense of the tournament over a person.... big bummer. Yeah, it's a big thing. My first forum post and everyone defends the house. What a waste of 4 years slowly moving towards connection. Hope the player that booted me wins.

[nik592]

My first forum post and everyone defends the house.

I didn't defend the house - if you read my post, you'll see that I ended up exactly where you did after my first tournament ("horrified to find on Day 2, my time was already gone due to sleep"). I live in Australia. I guarantee I'm hitting timezone issues more than a lot of people (or in some cases, causing them I suppose).

None of the other posters here represent BGA, they are just players like you. Your question here along this line isn't the first of its kind (and won't be the last) and sometimes people who answer the questions find that frustrating and maybe are a little more blunt in their responses. Your post implied you didn't understand how you'd lost your time, when that part seems fairly straightforward - that doesn't imply that you deserved a blunt response, but as I don't believe I gave one, I can't necessarily explain that, just offering another POV. If you had of asked about some of your other expectations (eg. geographic matching, or some other "fairness" levelling), people could have answered that.

As to those who boot right before a game closes out? Yeah, my opinion is also that they're jerks. Tournament play certainly has it's share of those who are playing to "win" (some arbitrary glory on the internet, which boggles my mind), not playing to play. I still play tournaments when I feel like it, and I still get annoyed when I get booted. As is also covered a lot in this forum (and in bug reports), tournaments probably shouldn't have booting at all, or at the very least have unanimous booting. What's even worse is that when someone is booted from a game, it's dealt with as a tie between all other players. The bootee gets eliminated sure, but if you have multi-player elimination, someone else has to go. And that's either based on the age of your account or possibly randomly, either way, that's really fun when you weren't even out of time, may have been on your way to a win, and you get eliminated because someone else got booted.

Tournaments have issues. Unfortunately, BGA doesn't seem to interested in putting work into the framework for them. So you either play them as they are, or skip them. You can still play with strangers competitively via Arena (which has some problems of its own), or even on ordinary games. Or you can stick to playing with friends. I'd probably rather play with my friends, but many of them won't do online board gaming, so I play a lot with strangers. Most are nice (or at least not "jerks"). Some are jerks. You can red thumb the jerks and hopefully never see them again. In my case, I can take the chance on hitting some jerks by playing with strangers, or I can not play the games I want when I want them - I'd rather play games.

[Meeplelowda]

My first forum post and everyone defends the house.

You quoted me, so it seems like this is directed at me. I have very specific critiques about the frustrating way in which tournaments are implemented on here and have written about them frequently, including within the past two weeks. One of my biggest critiques is that there is not a clear notice on the registration page about certain aspects of tournaments (like the fact that all round robin games all starting simultaneously) and instead people have to learn the hard way or from reading the forums. It really did seem like you had some misconceptions about how tournaments work (like maybe time would be added back to your clock like regular turn-based games). Explaining how tournaments work is not "defend[ing] the house."

[mrdoctor]

Vote for BGA-suggestions where people have suggested that booting in tournament games shouldn't be allowable.

[Mathew5000]

Here is my proposal that would reduce booting in tournaments by requiring unanimity:
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=107708 (currently 16 votes)

[RobertBr]

My first forum post and everyone defends the house. What a waste of 4 years slowly moving towards connection.

You seem to be taking this way too personally. Its a game - you joined one where you didn't understand the rules, as a result you did badly. That cannot be a new experience. Now you know how it works and you will be able to be more selective about any tournaments you enter in the future.

Tournaments can work well, but you need to be very careful about looking at options before you enter, BGA has made these very flexible but BGA leaves it to players to set up the actual competitions.