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The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 25 July 2024, 08:37
by Shadow00Fox
Very simple. Luck based game, the points on a win or loss have to be far less if playing someone far lower or higher ranked.
The way it is right now is rage inducing because of how unfair it is to those who are in elite and are forced to play bronze league players who can win because it's a majority luck game. One of those games will set back 2-3 games.
It's all dependent on luck based streaks to get to the top at which point there's no point in playing anymore. I'm now aware there might be a way to avoid some of those imbalanced matches but don't know effective it is yet.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 25 July 2024, 10:00
by DoctorFianchetto
You are correct, but I don't think it's an error with the system.
It's an inevitability when you compete at a game with such a huge luck factor. You will always need a lucky streak to get ahead. Personally I don't see why such games have a competition mode in the first place.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 25 July 2024, 19:18
by Shadow00Fox
I also want to know how as elite I get matched up with bronze level players, with both settings to not match up with players 2 levels less as well as only players around my skill or higher turned on.
There goes another 31 points down the bad matchmaking system luck drain.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 25 July 2024, 21:27
by euklid314
Have you set your Arena setting to:
I want to play with players of my level (green color)
I never want to play with players +-1 of my level (red color)
I never want to play with players +-2 of my level (red color)
I never want to play with players with a large distance to my level (red color)?
If you see these settings for Cant Stop then you should only play Elite players.
They might have very high and very low ELO and they can have very high and very low EAS points (Arena points), though. You cannot choose your opponents with respect to ELO or Arena points.
Please note that a bronze player has his AES points hidden but he still has AES points (usually around 1500 since you start the season with AES 1500). It is well possible that a bronze player has more ELO and AES points than an Elite player.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 29 July 2024, 04:47
by Shadow00Fox
Than you for this btw. It still seems to be giving me bronze league players anyway.. don't know why. Maybe I haven't changed all those settings. Hard to find the ones for players close to level etc.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 29 July 2024, 05:14
by Shadow00Fox
euklid314 wrote: ↑25 July 2024, 21:27
Have you set your Arena setting to:
I want to play with players of my level (green color)
I never want to play with players +-1 of my level (red color)
I never want to play with players +-2 of my level (red color)
I never want to play with players with a large distance to my level (red color)?
If you see these settings for Cant Stop then you should only play Elite players.
They might have very high and very low ELO and they can have very high and very low EAS points (Arena points), though. You cannot choose your opponents with respect to ELO or Arena points.
Please note that a bronze player has his AES points hidden but he still has AES points (usually around 1500 since you start the season with AES 1500). It is well possible that a bronze player has more ELO and AES points than an Elite player.
Well, this system for this game is broken, I have it on restricted settings to only close to my level and rank, still getting Bronze rank.
Oh well. I'm kinda giving up on trying to control what opponents end up in my game, as it doesn't seem to make a difference what I do.
As someone said, competitive for this game doesn't make sense. I think especially because of the messed up ranking and score system.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 08 August 2024, 17:29
by Shadow00Fox
I have settings set to my level or higher, never play with 2 levels or farther from my level, my level was strong/elite.
Get a beginner bronze, down 32. That's the most I've seen for a win/loss, and how do we get matched in the first place? Nice one for them, but why did the game happen?
I've played against bronze recently here and there but just had checked all my settings and upped them for closer higher levels as well.
Just read euklid's reply about AES points again... maybe that has something to do with it.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 08 August 2024, 18:52
by Jellby
When you're elite, there's really no reason to restrict your opponents' level. Whatever you gain or lose is based on the EAS (elite arena score), which starts at 1500 for everyone but is hidden until you reach elite. Players in lower leagues may have EAS higher or lower than 1500, there's no way to tell. Players in elite may have EAS higher or lower that 1500, you can see it, but there's no way to filter them. Even if you're the 1st ranking player, players in lower leagues could have a higher EAS than yours.
When you are in lower leagues, what you gain or lose is based on your opponents' leagues, so it makes sense to filter them.
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 08 August 2024, 18:58
by Jellby
Shadow00Fox wrote: ↑08 August 2024, 17:29
Get a beginner bronze, down 32. That's the most I've seen for a win/loss
That may be the highest you've seen (I think the theoretical maximum is 40), but you've lost 27-28 points by losing against other elite players, so not such a large difference (and the higher your score, the more you will lose, no matter against whom):
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=547202508
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=547104384
(you've also won 25-26 points by winning against elite players)
Here's a +/-33 between elite players:
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=543405334
Re: The problem with arena and can't stop
Posted: 08 August 2024, 19:09
by Shadow00Fox
Jellby wrote: ↑08 August 2024, 18:52
When you're elite, there's really no reason to restrict your opponents' level. Whatever you gain or lose is based on the EAS (elite arena score), which starts at 1500 for everyone but is hidden until you reach elite. Players in lower leagues may have EAS higher or lower than 1500, there's no way to tell. Players in elite may have EAS higher or lower that 1500, you can see it, but there's no way to filter them. Even if you the 1st ranking player, players in lower leagues could have a higher EAS than yours.
When you are in lower leagues, what you gain or lose is based on your opponents' leagues, so it makes sense to filter them.
Thank you! I think this was the most helpful answer. It doesn't seem like a totally mystical unfair system anymore. Luck based aside.
Essentially... the player level restrictions really don't mean much in the long run.
However that still doesn't explain how, if the result is based off the EAS score, then how can players with an EAS level so far off still get matched up contrary to the settings which should prevent that?