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I started to play Forest Shuffle a lot and seems that even with the Alpine Expansion, the player with the most draws for Deer/Wolves/Marten is way ahead.

While it's obvious to hate pick the animals and play them, what is the best counter for that strategy? Because you can't influence all card draws. You have to play trees so new cards will show up and the opponent can draw from the secret deck.

So far, if you're lucky, you could have a chance with birds and the amphibious cards, but based on the lack of good bonuses compared to the draw (wolves, deers) and new turn (wolves) it's far from an even comparison.

Generally if it's a 2p game, there are enough points out there for the game to balance out over the course. You might struggle to get deer/martens but be able to get more ferns, alpine cards, or other things instead. The strategy is how to optimize your drawing power which increases your chance of getting the desirable cards and use the turns efficiently rather than just competing for the same cards, since after a certain point, I agree, there are some things that are score better than others. So the key becomes trying to set up your engine to draw more cards if possible via mushrooms, using bonuses efficiently, picking from deck/clearing strategically, and avoid giving your opponent good cards. This can include avoid playing trees unless the opponent's hand is near full or the clearing is about to overflow or keeping cards in hand like the eurasian jay / douglas fir to give you an extra turn after you play something to the clearing.

There are plenty of games where fern/amphibs, hares/foxes, martens, even butterflies/newts/gentians in the alpine expansion, gnats/bats/doormouses, and even an occasional strong tree engine can generate plenty of points to beat the player with more martens/deer/wolves.

If we consider the scoring for the game to be basically your ability to optimize points per turn, there are numerous factors that go into it. Points per card played, cards played per turn & cards drawn per turn (net card gain/use each turn), opponent's for each of these, and we can influence each of these differently.

There is no counter. You either draw enough of them to deny/play or you don't win most of the time. Deer are too strong because of the synergies they have. You can play them for free, play the wolves that gain points from them for free, gain extra cards while playing them, etc. The only real way to nerf them would be to lower the score they provide, such as reducing the score they provide for deer to 1 or 2 from 3.

boardgamesmue wrote: ↑07 August 2024, 15:31 I started to play Forest Shuffle a lot and seems that even with the Alpine Expansion, the player with the most draws for Deer/Wolves/Marten is way ahead.

While it's obvious to hate pick the animals and play them, what is the best counter for that strategy? Because you can't influence all card draws. You have to play trees so new cards will show up and the opponent can draw from the secret deck.

So far, if you're lucky, you could have a chance with birds and the amphibious cards, but based on the lack of good bonuses compared to the draw (wolves, deers) and new turn (wolves) it's far from an even comparison.

What i found for me an good way roo go against this strategy is playing Racoons, Bears and this new Bird idk the name off. People will hate you but its funny and also a fast winning strategy

I have also played an effective "cave strat' using the bears, racoons, bearded vulture, and even planting saplings. All are a great way to deny cards to an opponents strategy. The euro-jay / douglas fir / stienbock etc are great ways to surprise with extra moves to control the clearing.

Jadlak wrote: ↑05 September 2024, 05:38 I have also played an effective "cave strat' using the bears, racoons, bearded vulture, and even planting saplings. All are a great way to deny cards to an opponents strategy. The euro-jay / douglas fir / stienbock etc are great ways to surprise with extra moves to control the clearing.

Thas basicly what i said

YukitoXKun wrote: ↑05 September 2024, 17:43 Thas basicly what i said

Hence my use of the word "also". But I did add more l, and named the card you referenced.

They are totally strong, but beatable as talked about. I think it’s good that they are such strong cards because if they weren’t, then it would eliminate the whole play of being careful when you throw down your trees etc

My thoughts , some already said above:
- draw through more cards than your opponent
- goshawks and ferns can score very high too, stay flexible
- avoid having 10 cards or keep an oak/silver fir/european jay
- holding a 2 cost tree is always good to flush the clearing, even if you miss out on a bonus
- end game fast before deer synergy fully goes off (draw 8-racoon)
- and last but not least: wolves and big deer often stuck a players hand. Underneath it all very broken turns can be set up with a mushroom and the MOLE

Fev09 wrote: ↑23 December 2024, 11:43 wolves and big deer often stuck a players hand. Underneath it all very broken turns can be set up with a mushroom and the MOLE

I don't understand this sentence. Can you explain it? What do you mean by "often stuck a player's hand"? What are "very broken turns"? What's the mushroom & mole tactic you're suggesting?