Board Game Arena

To my experience, the first player has an enormous advantage to win the game. I also checked the last 10 games of the number 1 player here on BGA, and in each of them the first player won - no matter how much Elo they have.

This problem is adressed on BGG as well: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/237373 ... sing-rules But I also found that a game designer (maybe the desigenr of this game?) wrote: "Another single game alternative is to allow everyone an equal number of turns" This idea is also supported by the publisher in another post https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/242419 ... t-deserves: "End Game Trigger Variant Would love to have you post your end game trigger variant as a separate post in the "Variant" section of these forums!"

So can we state that this variant to have an equal number of turns is official? And can we get it here on BGA, please?

You can vote for this suggestion here: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=60859

I actually feel the complete opposite. I almost never win when going first. The player who doesn't go first (obviously) gets to go last. They are able to plan going out many moves ahead of time based on the potions they themselves have completed, those that are active for themselves and their opponent, and those that are upcoming. They can see the layout of the marbles available on the board. They know for certain when the game is going to end and they can control it more than Player 1 can. For the player who went first to win, they have to build an enormous points advantage of perhaps 30 or more points because of the second player's planning advantage.

It used to be somewhat more balanced before they changed the rules. It used to be that the marble board was filled up before Player 1 chose their initial potions, but then that was removed as unfairly advantageous. We didn't want Player 1 to choose potions based on the marbles' positioning on the board. But wait - Player 2 gets to do just that as endgame approaches. They choose their final potions based on marble positioning as well as all the other mentioned factors.

cgund wrote: ↑11 September 2024, 18:34 The player who doesn't go first (obviously) gets to go last. ...
For the player who went first to win, they have to build an enormous points advantage of perhaps 30 or more points because of the second player's planning advantage.

It used to be that the marble board was filled up before Player 1 chose their initial potions, but then that was removed as unfairly advantageous. We didn't want Player 1 to choose potions based on the marbles' positioning on the board. But wait - Player 2 gets to do just that as endgame approaches. They choose their final potions based on marble positioning as well as all the other mentioned factors.

Surely you are not talking about Trellis? Trellis ends immediately when one player reaches 15 points.
Your description (marbles and potions) sounds like Potion Explosion to me, but I might be wrong about that.

lioness65 wrote: ↑09 September 2024, 10:15 To my experience, the first player has an enormous advantage to win the game. I also checked the last 10 games of the number 1 player here on BGA, and in each of them the first player won - no matter how much Elo they have.

This problem is adressed on BGG as well: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/237373 ... sing-rules But I also found that a game designer (maybe the desigenr of this game?) wrote: "Another single game alternative is to allow everyone an equal number of turns" This idea is also supported by the publisher in another post https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/242419 ... t-deserves: "End Game Trigger Variant Would love to have you post your end game trigger variant as a separate post in the "Variant" section of these forums!"

So can we state that this variant to have an equal number of turns is official? And can we get it here on BGA, please?

You can vote for this suggestion here: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=60859

Just wanted to totally agree! First player usually gets to use all the flowers first and win!

Thank you so much for posting this topic!

Breaking Games is preparing a smaller box version of Trellis and is also looking at any edits the rule set needs. We are considering including a Trellis Scoreboard in the new version.

For years, I have been posting on BGG encouraging players to play a series of games, then totalling up scores to find the overall winner based on the designer's post you have linked. I have focused on that "fix" since it is only thru more play that you can improve your skill at timing gift blooms and other strategies that can remove the First Player advantage.

It may be that we make multiple rounds of play the default mode of play. But, we may also choose to officially add "play an equal number of turns" in as an option, if that mode is not made the mormal.

How did we get here? I was not involved in the design or development of Trellis, but it appears that final testing did not include enough players brand new to the game. So, the First Player advantage when people are new to the game did not come thru as clear as it has over the years with the game out and getting played by many, many brand new to the game. I am so happy to get a shot to make upcoming changes as we prepare a new small box version.

We have some testing underway. Your feedback here or sent to hello@BreakingGames.com is welcome.

Happy Spring to you all. Enjoy all your play!

Would love to see the same option as in framework

Yes, I was talking about Potion Explosion!! I have never even heard of Trellis and no idea how I wound up in this forum.

lioness65 wrote: ↑12 September 2024, 23:03

cgund wrote: ↑11 September 2024, 18:34 The player who doesn't go first (obviously) gets to go last. ...
For the player who went first to win, they have to build an enormous points advantage of perhaps 30 or more points because of the second player's planning advantage.

It used to be that the marble board was filled up before Player 1 chose their initial potions, but then that was removed as unfairly advantageous. We didn't want Player 1 to choose potions based on the marbles' positioning on the board. But wait - Player 2 gets to do just that as endgame approaches. They choose their final potions based on marble positioning as well as all the other mentioned factors.

Surely you are not talking about Trellis? Trellis ends immediately when one player reaches 15 points.
Your description (marbles and potions) sounds like Potion Explosion to me, but I might be wrong about that.