Board Game Arena

Talking on behalf of another player who used to enjoy this game. Since the update she's barely able to get on the board anymore, forget about winning, she's really having difficulty just getting on the board without getting constantly bumped off.

I have watched as she plays and just as she gets on board, regardless whether she is on prime numbers like 6-7- or 8, she's constantly busting. There's definitely something wacky about the new implementation, update or whatever you want to call it. To say it is touchy would be an understatement, it's rather nonsensical how touchy it is, as you get bumped off way more for no apparent reason than she used to.

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=15320
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=15790

Meddled with algorithm? This post looks like a typical knee-jerk reaction or confirmation bias.
Actually many players constantly argue BGA is somehow tampering their dice/cards/(any randomized components) all the time, without any basis.

Personally, I find these conspiracy theories extremely insulting, as they naturally mean I somehow manipulated the results.
Even the code is open, so please go check yourself: https://studio.boardgamearena.com/

I mean no offense, and I don't have any direct proof that algorithms were changed by anyone. I know none of that, I just find it strange that players' experiences can change so much about a game they've played extensively and directly after they have been updated.

Who knows... maybe nothing has changed except my friend's perception, or "bias" as you say. It's an interesting topic though, how people react to their experiences with games and how those experiences can change when and if updates to the game are made. Anyway, I don't assume any malfeasance or wrong was done, just that it seems strange that the gameplay of the game seems so different after the update implementation.

P.S. I absolutely love your implementation of Yahtzee, you are a great game designer.

FYI, 3 years ago there WAS one incident where BGA admins somehow screwed up and allowed a loophole: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22199
In that case, everyone who looked into the game record (including myself) was able to see something obviously amiss, across hundreds of games.

If you think the game is somehow biased, please provide a convincing evidence before writing a post.
Then I'll ask other developers to initiate a deep investigation as well.

LTP56 wrote: ↑07 February 2025, 07:28 I don't have any direct proof that algorithms were changed by anyone. I know none of that

And yet....

Can I delete my thread since it's misleading and not really helpful?

ufm wrote: ↑07 February 2025, 07:48 FYI, 3 years ago there WAS one incident where BGA admins somehow screwed up and allowed a loophole: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22199
In that case, everyone who looked into the game record (including myself) was able to see something obviously amiss, across hundreds of games.

If you think the game is somehow biased, please provide a convincing evidence before writing a post.
Then I'll ask other developers to initiate a deep investigation as well.

Thanks for linking this fascinating thread! It's too bad they were fairly vague about how the exploit was possible.

Nope, I completely agree with your friend. I don't know what it is but something has changed since the last update. I posted something similar on the other thread. I've played hundreds of games of this on BGA and the amount of rolls that bust have increased significantly.

LTP56 wrote: ↑07 February 2025, 08:41 Can I delete my thread since it's misleading and not really helpful?

I think it is not bad to keep the post. Those that are reasonable will hopefully collect data (and we can discuss that) before posting. Those that are not resonable will always feel according their gut and nothing will convince them - because their feeling is there and this is more important to them than actual data.

I have huge respect, LTP56 for your approach to accept you might possibly be wrong. Only data can show that...

I explain why the confirmation bias is linked to such an event like an update. Our brains are extremely well suited to find patterns and link different aspects (correlation vs. causality).

Your friend knew there was an update and perhaps had one unlucky game. She thought "This could be linked to the update" and payed more attention to the rolls. She would think "I will surely fall within the next 3 moves!" and will take a mental note every time she is right (15% in the example). It will feel more than 15% since she will closely pay attention. Perhaps also, she has a short unlucky streak. And voila, you have a theory that should be backed up with data.

But an unreasonable player (not you) would of course have no data from before the update and is not willing to collect data after the update.

LTP56 wrote: ↑07 February 2025, 06:17 I have watched as she plays and just as she gets on board, regardless whether she is on prime numbers like 6-7- or 8, she's constantly busting. There's definitely something wacky about the new implementation, update or whatever you want to call it. To say it is touchy would be an understatement, it's rather nonsensical how touchy it is, as you get bumped off way more for no apparent reason than she used to.

Just want to add to this thread that since the update it appears to me that people have a much easier time doing massively long runs and that the dice seem to 'give' people the numbers they already have. (I'm dead serious, this isn't just a sarcastic response)

As a programmer and person a little familiar with maths and statistics and cognitive biases, I'm 99.999% sure that there would be absolutely no motivation for some programmer somewhere to be messing with us in this way, and that random numbers just do weird things all the time and we can see patterns that are not there *causally* - i.e. the patterns are happening, but no one engineered them that way, that's just what random numbers do. Even though I *know* that our experience of random numbers makes us think weird things, I *still* think weird things - like why did the programmer of this game make it so that my opponents beat me so often?

Point of my post is just to add that it looks different to me after the update, but in the complete opposite direction to OP