Board Game Arena

The only game I have played here so far is Hex, which is for two players. Before the game started, the time control was explained. Each player had 5 minutes to make all their moves in the game, and an increment of 70 seconds would be added to your time with each move you make. That seemed clear to me.

During play, The amount of time left for each player was clearly visible in our respective boxes. In addition to that, I noticed a red status bar which took about 4 or 5 minutes to progress all the way across. It would reset with each move made by either player. There was no label to explain the purpose of this status bar, but during my opponent's turn there would appear a link next to it, which said something like "My opponent is taking too long. What should I do?" I never clicked on the link. During my turn, a link next to the bar said "I would like to take more time." I found this confusing, since the time control was clearly explained ahead of time, or so I thought. I did not expect to be allowed to request additional time. Neither I nor my opponent ever took longer to move than the status bar took to complete its apparent timeout, nor did either of us run out of time according to our remaining time displays.

I have two questions.

1. If this status bar ever reaches the end, is the other player allowed to expel that player? If so, then IMO that would conflict with the agreed time control. If I want to take six minutes or more on a single move, then I should be allowed to do so without penalty, as long as I do not run out of total time. With regard to Hex, the biggest grid available to play on here is 15x15. Some very complicated positions may arise between strong players. I might need to take time to figure out my move.

2. If a player runs out of time according to the remaining time display (NOT the status bar,) does the server automatically award a win to the opponent?

Yes, there are some aspects of the time that can be confusing.

I believe this information is mostly accurate, but it is not guaranteed....
The total time indicated (the 5 minutes) is how long one has to play before an opponent can expel them from the game.
The time added per move (the 70 seconds) is how long one has to play before they receive an overtime penalty.
This means that someone may play slow, and receive an indicator on their status that they go over time, but not play so slow that they can be kicked from the table.

Now, as to what happens when someone does run all the way out of time:
The server does nothing. Well, until something like 2 weeks pass, at least. But, any active player has the option to expel the player who went over time. At that point, the player is turned into a zombie. If the code is written to allow the computer to play zombie players, the game continues. If not, the game ends. In either case, the player who was expelled receives a -10 ELO penalty and a disconnect penalty (in addition to the overtime penalty already given). No other player receives or loses any ELO, though.

As a side note -- the link that says "I would like to think a little" does not actually give any more time. It is there so that when faced with a move that requires thinking, the player can let others at the table know they are still active. If at a physical table, people would be able to see a look of concentration, and a player looking at the board, their cards, etc. When playing on-line, they can only see a monitor where nothing is moving, which is also what they see when someone leaves their computer. It is designed so that the player doesn't need to break their concentration that much to let others know they are still in the game.

So, as to your questions specifically:

Peyrol wrote:1. If this status bar ever reaches the end, is the other player allowed to expel that player? If so, then IMO that would conflict with the agreed time control. If I want to take six minutes or more on a single move, then I should be allowed to do so without penalty, as long as I do not run out of total time.

A time penalty (the mark on the profile) will be awarded when the status bar reaches the end, but the opponent is not allowed to immediately expel that player. (Again, I think this is accurate, but I'm not positive)

Peyrol wrote:2. If a player runs out of time according to the remaining time display (NOT the status bar,) does the server automatically award a win to the opponent?

The server does nothing with the game until the player is expelled.

Okay, thanks for your help.

If I expel an opponent in a two player game who has exceeded their allotted total time, does that mean I win the game and gain Elo points?

Peyrol wrote:Okay, thanks for your help.

If I expel an opponent in a two player game who has exceeded their allotted total time, does that mean I win the game and gain Elo points?

No, you won't gain anything.
The other player will "gain" an abandon icon and he'll get an ELO penalty in points higher than the loss of ELO points he'll have suffered if he had played and lost the game normally 'til the end.

Jest Phulin wrote:The total time indicated (the 5 minutes) is how long one has to play before an opponent can expel them from the game.
The time added per move (the 70 seconds) is how long one has to play before they receive an overtime penalty.

I don't think this is accurate. I don't play live very often, but I have gone over the turn time and received no overtime penalty. That also doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because the reason that extra think time exists is because some turns are going to take longer, longer than the normal turn time, and one should not be penalized for that.

Actually, Liallan, right now your profile is showing 1 time penalty on 8 recent games. I think "recent" is past 60 days, but I could be way off on that.
Remember, there is a difference between time penalties (which show up as a red clock) and leave table penalties (which are the arrow leaving the rectangle, as well as ELO).

And, again, I don't have access to the code, so I could be way off on everything I say. (appropriate smiley)

Jest Phulin wrote:Actually, Liallan, right now your profile is showing 1 time penalty on 8 recent games. I think "recent" is past 60 days, but I could be way off on that.
Remember, there is a difference between time penalties (which show up as a red clock) and leave table penalties (which are the arrow leaving the rectangle, as well as ELO).

And, again, I don't have access to the code, so I could be way off on everything I say. (appropriate smiley)

I meant for a live game. That's from a turn-based where I was having internet problems. I've played live games which were like 30 seconds per turn, and some turns were under that and some were over, and I definitely would cut into the start time, and never got any penalties for those. And again, that does not make sense, because some turns are simply going to take longer.

It's different situation on turn-based, because we aren't spending that time on just taking the turn.

There are 2 different time limits 'per move'. The '70 seconds' you refer to is the time added to the total time for every move, so this needs to be close to your average time per move in order to finish the game without running out of time (for the game). There is also a time limit per move, which might vary a little by game and play speed, but I believe is in the 3-4 minute range for most games after which you will get a red clock and your opponent(s) will be allowed to expel you. When you are about to start a game it will list this time. It says something like if you go more than 5 minutes over your total time or over 3 minutes on a single move you can be expelled.

and for turn based I know that the max time per move before you can expel someone is 3x the turn rate (so 1.5 days at 2 moves per day, 3 days at 1 move per day, etc.)