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If one player starts with cave 8, while another player get a cave of filling all 4 cards in swamp and drawing a card,this means the latter one starting the game with at least 10 fewer cards, the downside of cave No. 8 is relatively minor when players are of similar skill levels.I suggest add a mechanism to ban caves, or at least a game-start option to disable the cave effect.

You will start the game with 6 cards. Period. These cave effects apply later in the game, not at the beginning?

reikja wrote: ↑09 June 2026, 07:59 You will start the game with 6 cards. Period. These cave effects apply later in the game, not at the beginning?

reikja wrote: ↑09 June 2026, 07:59 You will start the game with 6 cards. Period. These cave effects apply later in the game, not at the beginning?

My point is that this cave’s card-drawing capability vastly outperforms that of the others; in this game, the ability to draw cards is superior to caves that simply provide victory points. Among the expansion content, only the cave that allows you to place an empty-plot tile into the cave upon playing a swamp tile comes close to matching this one—the others are significantly weaker. When faced with a choice between just two options, the player who goes first and secures such a powerful cave gains a massive immediate advantage. In my view, caves should serve a supplementary role rather than dictating match strategy to such an extent, which is why I feel this particular cave is somewhat unbalanced.

agree.

the caves are very badly balanced. if there are two caves with similar power, it might be okay (e.g. put 2 cards into cave whenever the clearing is flushed AND draw 3 cards extra and put 3 into clearing - I consider these equivalently powerful and also hard to predict how much they will help in a particular game). But if there are two unbalanced caves, like the 12 card hand size cave (most powerful imho) and the 5 points cave, the player who may choose first is almost impossible to beat. the game is over even before the first card is played.

lordhavoc306 wrote: ↑09 June 2026, 21:03 agree.

the caves are very badly balanced. if there are two caves with similar power, it might be okay (e.g. put 2 cards into cave whenever the clearing is flushed AND draw 3 cards extra and put 3 into clearing - I consider these equivalently powerful and also hard to predict how much they will help in a particular game). But there are two unbalanced caves, like the 12 card hand size cave (most powerful imho) and the 5 points cave, the player who may choose first is almost impossible to beat. the game is over even before the first card is played.

Why is the 5 point cave so good?

Timm-E wrote: ↑11 June 2026, 15:08

lordhavoc306 wrote: ↑09 June 2026, 21:03 agree.

the caves are very badly balanced. if there are two caves with similar power, it might be okay (e.g. put 2 cards into cave whenever the clearing is flushed AND draw 3 cards extra and put 3 into clearing - I consider these equivalently powerful and also hard to predict how much they will help in a particular game). But there are two unbalanced caves, like the 12 card hand size cave (most powerful imho) and the 5 points cave, the player who may choose first is almost impossible to beat. the game is over even before the first card is played.

Why is the 5 point cave so good?

It isn't. an "if" was missing in my former post

Ah OK, I thought maybe I am missing a certain tactic with it

It's true that the caves are not all equally strong, but I don't think the draw with fewer than 4 cards in hand is even the strongest one.

That's maybe the 3rd-strongest in my experience, behind the one that sends a card from the clearing to your cave when you play a moor (strongest) and the 12 card hand (2nd strongest). But I could be wrong. All 3 of those are very good, and I'm happy to see any of the 3.