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I think there should be no first player is killer option because usually the killer wins. As I have found out, it is much harder to be the inspector, but that is my opinion. I think it should always be random to make it fair.
Please tell me if this is a good idea or not below.
Thanks,
Pisaac

Yes, I think it. Be an inspector is harder than killer, but not so much (maybe in a 60/40 ratio).

With inspector you should be so carefully because you can't change your identity, so if the Killer knows who character are you, you will loss fast.

But still, I think it should be random, so both people have a chance of being the killer.

Oso wrote:Yes, I think it. Be an inspector is harder than killer, but not so much (maybe in a 60/40 ratio).

With inspector you should be so carefully because you can't change your identity, so if the Killer knows who character are you, you will loss fast.

for experienced players, i would put the ratio at a 90/10 ratio in favour of the killer.

the killer has to only keep track of the inspector .. and can narrow down the range reasonably quickly with judicious killing of innocents to eliminate possibilities before jumping into a new disguise.

the inspector has to keep track of the current killer possibilities AND what information about their location the killer has gleaned .. and without a 2d win condition .. the killer can just play keepaway once they know the inspector down to as many as 3 possibilities.

as i posted in the other topic, having a 2d win condition for the inspector (everyone but the killer and inspector declared innocent) would make it a more fair playing field .. and would give the endgame a more tense racing element.

removing the reverse canvassing of killing innocents (or perhaps adjusting it to only be in the 4 cardinal directions rather than including diagonals ?) might give the inspector a better shot.

kvi ratio 60/40? i think 99/1.

Killer some kill, he know inspector is near, or not.(i say it " Kill-Clue".) It's not fair.
Killer can search inspector, but inspector can't change chracter.

MUST Remove "kill-clue". and reset ELO.

Killer is more easy than Inspector without Kill-clue.

this game is no funny with Kill-clue.

Hi

I do agree it isn't well balanced between killer and inspector. Is it better in classical mode?

Inspector can suffer random kill whereas random arrest is very risky.

And above all the 16 dead rule is too advantageous because it has nothing against it. Why not a 18 innocent rule. Or a ONce no evidence card left inspector has one 2 step distant shot. Or keep the 16 kill rule only until the Evidence deck is empty.

Anyway the editor should be informed that lot of player think it is not well balanced. Why not a poll to get players opinion?

There is a similar thread on BGG about this issue:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/140502 ... far-easier

and the aurthor, Brad Talton, has made his response there.

Babz wrote: Anyway the editor should be informed that lot of player think it is not well balanced. Why not a poll to get players opinion?

I like this idea, but I don't really like classic because you can't tell where the killer is based on the suspects. You only know that the suspect ISN"T the killer which rules out three people, but you should get the chance to see if the killer is adjacent to the suspect...

Hi,

To come back to the start of this thread:

Pisaac wrote:I think there should be no first player is killer option because usually the killer wins. As I have found out, it is much harder to be the inspector, but that is my opinion. I think it should always be random to make it fair.

Noir KVI is an asymetrical game. That's why the "first player is killer" option was included, so that as in real life, you can rematch your opponent with the symetrical role after the first game.

I checked the game statistics, 87% of games used random, 8% killer, 5% inspector. So the option seems to be correctly used overall. As with anything on the internet, some abuse is to be expected, but it's usually not the rule. If you encounter some clear cut abuse, you can use red thumbs and/or the 'report a player' tool.

Babz wrote:Anyway the editor should be informed that lot of player think it is not well balanced. Why not a poll to get players opinion?

You can be sure that a publisher gets quite a lot of opinions about his game even before it gets published. It's part of the publishing process

Anyway, the best place to discuss the game further is probably the BGG thread provided by ch huang where there has been feedback from the designer. Just please remember to be nice (sometimes people forget), and that opinions are just opinions unless backed with tremendous statistical analysis

Cheers,
Een

Een wrote:Hi,

To come back to the start of this thread:

Pisaac wrote:I think there should be no first player is killer option because usually the killer wins. As I have found out, it is much harder to be the inspector, but that is my opinion. I think it should always be random to make it fair.

Noir KVI is an asymetrical game. That's why the "first player is killer" option was included, so that as in real life, you can rematch your opponent with the symetrical role after the first game.

I checked the game statistics, 87% of games used random, 8% killer, 5% inspector. So the option seems to be correctly used overall. As with anything on the internet, some abuse is to be expected, but it's usually not the rule. If you encounter some clear cut abuse, you can use red thumbs and/or the 'report a player' tool.

Cheers,
Een

rather than just using the overall stats (given that the default is random), try using the stats for the top20 players in ELO only. i suspect you will find different results.

the other stat i would look at if i had access to the server ... the %win rate of the inspector vs the %win rate of the killer.

the only time investigator can win the game is by random luck with a blind arrest in the first 2 turns, or playing against an inexperienced killer. the game is definitely broken with the current implementation.

the game dev did suggest in the BGG topic that the staggered collapse ability as outlined in the rules, rather than needing to line up all the killed suspects in the same row or column, might make a difference.