Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

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RazorOz
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Joined: 25 June 2022, 13:58

Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by RazorOz »

I've brought this up before, but I have just witnessed a great example that demonstrates how flawed the current system is.

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So here for all intents and purposes the game is over. The first 3 cars have already finished on the podium, 4th is already decided, and 5th is going to finish on the same turn, but is either booted or quits during the clear last turn of the game. This then voids the entire race. So everyone else has wasted an hour of their time for nothing.

The way the ELO system currently handles these situations is ridiculously flawed. Anyone with a decent ranking will gain 0 no matter how close to completion the race is, and then even though it doesn't particularly bother me, lower ranked players get a significant boost to ELO from tying higher ranked players. It's just a total nonsense, especially once you take into account here the majority of quits take place when the race is 1-2 turns from the end and is either virtually decided or actually decided like this one was.

The obvious solution to me is that anyone who quits is just last, but the race still completes and counts towards ELO, is there actually a good reason the system isn't like this. Because as I've said before it's beyond tedious dealing with these players, and red thumbing them is not the answer, I must have about 50 players blocked, yet I still continually run into these players even with my settings set to very restrictive reputation wise. 9 of my last 27 races have ended with some quitting, and that sort of number isn't that out of place, there is a consistent stream of quitters no matter what you set your settings to, the only way to really avoid them is to play invitational games with players you know, but that's surely not what the site wants, no-one wanting to play open games.

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call out specific tables or players by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.
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Phoxtrot
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by Phoxtrot »

Red thumb them (both quitters and the ones booting them asap when the race is essentially over)
Refuse to play with people with less than great karma.
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howie varez
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by howie varez »

I agree with Oz. It would be ideal if one player quitting still allowed the remaining players to finish the race for normal Elo results. Obviously in lower player counts this probably doesn't work as well, but in a game like Heat that is designed to play at 5 or 6, I think that makes a lot of sense.
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RazorOz
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by RazorOz »

Phoxtrot wrote: 16 January 2024, 16:28 Red thumb them (both quitters and the ones booting them asap when the race is essentially over)
Refuse to play with people with less than great karma.
Can you even tell who booted someone from a race?

The problem is none of this actually solves the problem as there are plenty of quitters with great karma.
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GTSchemer
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by GTSchemer »

Regaining karma is extremely quick with short games, so it seems to me that red thumbs would be the only current option.
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RazorOz
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by RazorOz »

Yes, but given I red thumb every quitter, and must have seen over 50 of them, that's not an actual solution to the bigger issue at hand.
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RazorOz
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by RazorOz »

Phoxtrot wrote: 16 January 2024, 16:28 Red thumb them (both quitters and the ones booting them asap when the race is essentially over)
Refuse to play with people with less than great karma.
How do you tell who booted someone from a game?

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I would like to block the person who booted the guy instantly after I'd already won the race, and everyone else was 1 turn from the finish.

The system for this continues to be a complete joke btw. My last 2 races have ended after I have already won the race, but someone quits/gets booted after I finish. So I waste 2 hours, get nothing, while in the second race for example, the guy who desperately booted someone whose time just run out gets + ELO for "tying" me, fair system guys, real fair.

*Moderation Edit: please do not use the Forums to call out specific tables or players by name, this is what the Moderation Reports are for. The Forums should remain a general discussion.
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Phoxtrot
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by Phoxtrot »

RazorOz wrote: 26 January 2024, 16:15
Phoxtrot wrote: 16 January 2024, 16:28 Red thumb them (both quitters and the ones booting them asap when the race is essentially over)
Refuse to play with people with less than great karma.
How do you tell who booted someone from a game?

https://boardgamearena.com/5/heat?table=467110130

I would like to block the person who booted the guy instantly after I'd already won the race, and everyone else was 1 turn from the finish.

The system for this continues to be a complete joke btw. My last 2 races have ended after I have already won the race, but someone quits/gets booted after I finish. So I waste 2 hours, get nothing, while in the second race for example, the guy who desperately booted someone whose time just run out gets + ELO for "tying" me, fair system guys, real fair.
Start a replay.
You don't even need to select a player to do a replay from their perspective, the page where you can pick a player contains all you need.

Use your browser to search for the booted player (here "redfox2605") on that page (Ctrl-F on most browsers), cycle backward so as to look at the last occurrences first until you find the "out of time" line. (Or directly search for "out of time")

Here, with French my language, I see:
Coup 387 :4:04:52 PM
redfox2605 a dépassé son temps de jeu, aussi FIE lui fait passer son tour
in english (added &lang=en in the browser address bar):
Move 387 :4:04:52 PM
redfox2605 is out of time, so FIE skips his/her turn
So "FIE" booted them.
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Phoxtrot
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by Phoxtrot »

Side note:

Many players don't read the rules properly. I have seen players that believed that the game ended as soon as someone has finished the race (like many games do).

So, if there are new players in the game, I would remind them that it is not so, so that they don't leave the table thinking the game is over in a few seconds when it is not...
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RazorOz
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Re: Are we ever going to change the system to stop hurting honest players vs quitters?

Post by RazorOz »

Phoxtrot wrote: 26 January 2024, 16:33 Side note:

Many players don't read the rules properly. I have seen players that believed that the game ended as soon as someone has finished the race (like many games do).

So, if there are new players in the game, I would remind them that it is not so, so that they don't leave the table thinking the game is over in a few seconds when it is not...
Thanks for your help.

In this case it definitely wasn't a case of someone not knowing the rules, just someone desperately trying to save their ELO, and instead the system lets them profit from it.
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